Baptism is not Necessary: Baptism Regeneration issue VS Salvation through Belief

Full Study and Dialog with Joseph Russell (Christian) in a Social Media conversation regarding Biblical Baptism and its unimportance. Coming Soon!

From Christ's Words to Nicodemus.

From the same chapter as understood by most Christians

Questions

1. Why did Christ, Paul and the rest of the apostles teach Baptism?
2. In today's Christian world, is Baptism Still Necessary?
3. To believe Christ is enough as the scripture said, so why do we need Baptism?

These will be some of the few questions that we will discuss and some others will follow as we go through this article. For a brief context, Joseph Russell, one of the members of "LDS and Non-LDS Christian Discussion Group" posted something he thinks is anachronism in the Book of Mormon mentioning the baptism of Christ that was seen by Nephi long before baptism was introduced, and he posted it knowing it was n anachronism. Nephi was shown by an Angel about the future events which were also the things his father saw about the coming of the son of God in the flesh where his father Lehi attempted to tell his sons about it. Nephi as his desire to know what his father meant asks for guidance which eventually leads him to see a vision. But anyway, we will not make a full discussion of this topic rather let's try to see some responses that I made about it and here he was educating me about my poor understanding of the Bible. Let's see how his lecture goes -

First Attempt: Water Baptism does not save? 

I ask Wil Jennings about his idea of the subject that he opened up which is Water Baptism, Joseph Russell made an aggressive response and try to point out that I'm not knowledgeable about this subject. This time Wil Jennings quote a scripture which I assumed Joseph Russell agrees on it. So let's see what the context was all about.

Water Baptism or Just believe Jesus Christ?

So, let go over to the entire chapter in which Nicodemus talks to Christ about Salvation. We all know the story, so I will skip some parts that does not need more explanations. So heres what we get -

First few verses (v. 2-4) actually tells us that Nicodemus were eager to know what salvation was all about. Christ told him what to do, telling him that he need to be born again. Nicodemus of course, doesn't understand and don't know what to do, ask him further question how's it goes. So Christ respond in this verse and of course it's the subject of this article -

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. - John 3:5-6

It's important to understand the Greek form γεννηθῇ refered to closely as to regenerate or born again. And there goes the thing or elements needed which Christ refers to water and Spirit. Also v5 as he addressed to Nicodemus, (οὐ τις δύναται εἰσελθεῖν), which he meant as no other way to salvation. But yes, further biblical reading after Christ made his ministry helps us realized there are things need to get there but that doest void the importance of Baptism as Christ words to his apostles to declare baptism to every nation.

So,  why John 3:16? What's the point of Christ words of just belief and be saved?

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. - John 3:16

So here goes the issue. Though its not actually an issue at all, rather a misunderstood statement. If you just go on and read that simple verse, you will come up in a conclusion that it is the only way of salvation, which most of the Christians made a lot of misconceptions. But upon further reading and study, you'll come to understand that there are things need be done in which Christ wants us to do.

Moving on v18, here Christ made an statement that in order for us to be save and be not condemned, we need to know Christ and believe in his name, if not then there's condemnation waiting while in v19 those who don't believe were already condemned because of their evil deeds. So, why they were condemned? Because they don't do the right thing, as the evil deeds suggest. So heres the point, people who knew Christ and yet follow the opposite were condemned. This is actually a direct statement and yet we missed something, that working out of salvation is still part of it, thus v20 for He that DOETH evil hateth the light,  and in v21 He that DOETH the truth cometh to the Light. Of course that Light is Christ. And what else that says there? V21 that his Deeds may be made manifest, and so on... And that is what salvation meant.

So its simple, to believe Christ or to cometh to the light, it needs good deeds, and basically as part of Christ words to Nicodemus in this exact same chapter and conversation, baptism is necessary and baptism is one of the Good deeds that enables us to come closer to Christ.

I wonder how Joseph Russell understood that same chapter where they use to quote just one verse in their theological study of salvation?

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Up next... 

Highlights of Study Mark 16:16
Believe not Shall be Damned

Bird of Prey: Cyrus of Persia not Felix Manalo

Cyrus the Great with a Hemhem crown, or four-winged Cherub tutelary divinity,
from a relief in the residence of Cyrus in Pasagardae

This post that I have encountered for some time. One of the INC members tried hard to explain their ideology that Isaiah's prophecy of the Ravenous Bird was all about Felix Manalo and he challenges me about it. This time we'll take some on this study to help someone understand biblical occurrences specifically Isaiah's words during the exile. So here we go -

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If biblical scholars are united in their statement that Cyrus fulfilled the prophecy of the bird of prey. But why is it that in the following verses of 12 and 13, they no longer relate their opinions to Cyrus, most of them are already united in the opinion that this actually refers to the church of the new covenant?

Good question, so do you understand how the Biblical Paragraph works and the message of the succeeding verses?

The passage from Isaiah 46
in which the commenter tries to point out.

In logos.com here is what they meant about it -

"...

Paragraphing is a necessary task for translation—and a help for interpretation..."(Click on the link above to go directly to the source.)

So basically, Paragraphing simply suggests a different topic, or the author could simply make a new revelatory line that doesn't necessarily apply to its prior writings, rather it's simply a different view and address to a different idea. This happens since in the old days they had limited space in writing and materials. 

Consider the writings in the New Testament during Christ's Ministry, here sample below -

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

6¶ Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

7¶ Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

8For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

9Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

10Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?

11If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

12Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. (Matthew 7:1-12)

There's  a short verse there which is verse 6 that could ruined your understanding without paragraphing. If you're to connect verse 5 and 6, it would make no sense while reading from the very start. Same goes on the next verse connecting 6 and 7 while reading on the succeeding verses. This way of writings  answers to your concern, that is "why Isaiah 46:12-13 didn't said anything about verse 11?" My short answer - Then understand how paragraphing works.

Because what is written in the verses, such as "God's righteousness in salvation", "Israel, Zion" is already associated by most of them with the church established by the Lord Jesus Christ. It’s just a fact that they’re not sure in their opinion that Cyrus is the referred bird of prey. Because this work was never assigned by God to Cyrus.

Seriously, you don't know what the scripture is all about by just trying to pinpoint your opinion to an ideology that didn't even align biblically. Cyrus knew when Isaiah made his prophecy and how he could fulfill it by simply observing Isaiah's words. While here you are telling everyone it wasn't about Cyrus and the exile? Just where did you get that idea?

It would be better if I just gave you a few points that you can strive to find in the books of prophecy and fulfillment spoken by the prophets.

1. The designated work commissioned by God for Cyrus to accomplish was the rebuilding of the temple in Jerusalem. Clearly there was a proclamation made by Cyrus in this regard.

Cyrus did not just proclaim a rebuilding of the Temple, there are other things Isaiah prophesied about him such as -

That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid. - Isaiah 44:2

So, here is the point. He was called shepherd and will perform God's work. He also was also promised as the one who will build up Jerusalem (more accurately to restore the Jews to their promised land) and buil the temple in which he was promised that he shall laid the foundation.

Heres another part that said about Cyrus Calling

Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;

2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:

3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.

4 For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me. - Isaiah 45:1-4

Have you seen the pattern? The reason why God want Cyrus fulfil the prophets prophecy was that he's anointed. God saw that during the reign of Cyrus, was also a perfect time to lead Israel back to their Home Land.

Here's another one of the same Chapter - 

13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts. - Isaiah 45:13

Was this all about the Babelonian Captivity? It does, Isaiah's subject was all about the same matter and how the Israel be freed from bondage. This is fhe main concern during their time and not the region unknown to Isaiah's knowledge which is most INC think was in Philippines. And notice how it emphasize Cyrus calling. He was to rebuild the City, He will let the people back to their Land as I have said a while ago.

This scriptural verses alone is enough to understand that Cyrus was the main character in Isaiah's prophecy and not the other person in Philippines as they claim. There are other scriptural passages that said about him, see other reference below this commentaries

2. God never commanded the “bird of prey” to rebuild the temple in Jerusalem. If there are verses that do say that, it would be better if you could show it to us right away.

Where did such an argument come from?

So, we are to take it literally. Alright, so what does the scripture say about it?

3. Because the pattern of events is very remarkable and cannot be ruled out among the people with prophecy in the book of Isaiah, such as Cyrus, John the Baptist, the Apostle Paul, and the Lord Jesus Christ. Because they all proclaimed that Isaiah's prophecy had been fulfilled in them.

Just because someone made a claim about the fulfillment of a specific prophecy then you concluded it as true. Does it really necessary to make a claim that a certain religious person was called and was authorized because he or they claimed that he was, or they were? You're trying to say here that it's the only option to declare that he is called, or a prophet meant to be that way. We call it the False Dilemma Fallacy. Thinking it's just the only way to make Isaiah's statement to Cyrus authenticity by simply looking up other people's declarations. Okay, so let's try to have some of it, what about the most quoted prophet Moses, did he claim that he was the prophet that was mentioned in some previous prophets that foresaw his days? Did someone say something about Moses before his days? Maybe if we have one. And yet, he was the great prophet aside from Christ (Hebrews 3:1-3).

I will give you a challenge, show here the verse, with full clarity, or at least a hint, that Cyrus did indeed proclaim, “I am the bird of prey”.

As I'd said, it's not the way prophecy goes, people can simply use the same statement addressed to them without knowing the context, and that is how you people fail to understand the scriptures. If you insist let's try to understand what the bird of prey would do to the Jewish people during the exile and how was it addressed to your claimed Messenger?

As John the Baptist declared, “I am the voice that cries out in the wilderness”.

This is simply an example of what I said about False Dilemma Fallacy. Not all prophets said everything about them was written and defined who they were. You simply use a subject that makes no sense and is irrelevant to your messenger as you claim he was. Every person in our days can claim who they are and how they were called using a simple passage of the scriptures without understanding the context. And for the record, Manalo did nothing during the Babylonian captivity or the exile. He never led the Jewish people or the covenanted people of God to the Promised Land.

Talking about the Exile, check out this post about the song "By The Rivers of Babylon" from Psalm 137 where the Jewish People wished to be in their homeland. It's just a simple commentary.

#IglesiaNiCristo

#ChurchOfChrist

#ProudINC

#SolidINC

#INCDefenders

https://incmedia.org/thats-in-the-bible/

And what's with these hashtags for?

Other reference here - 

• 2 CHRONICLES 36:23
• EZRA 1
• EZRA 5:13
• ISAIAH 44:28