FamilySearch intro

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Job Bautista: Context of 2 Nephi 9:8

Job Bautista of Iglesia Ni Cristo posted this in one of his comments, in which I for about a multiple times that it seems like he's misleading someone by overlooking on a passage without knowing what it meant.

Below was his comments and my response to his arrogant post. Let's dive in -

From a comment section (Name withheld)

Now, what was this actually all about? Is it true that LDS people will become a devil according to Job Bautista? So what's the Context was all about?

What was 2 Nephi 9:8 all about?

In 2 Nephi 9:8, Jacob, a prophet in the Book of Mormon, is teaching about the Atonement of Jesus Christ and its essential role for mankind. This verse explains that without the Atonement, our spirits would become subject to the devil, resulting in a spiritual death where we would be cut off from the presence of God forever. It emphasizes the necessity of Christ's sacrifice for our redemption and to bring us back into the presence of God. The Atonement offers us the opportunity to be saved from two deaths: a physical death and a spiritual death, giving us hope for a resurrection and eternal life. It's a powerful reminder of the love God has for us and the central role of Jesus Christ's sacrifice.

Does it said that every LDS will become a devil?

The reference to becoming subject to the devil, as mentioned in scriptures like 2 Nephi 9:8, refers to the consequence of sin without the Atonement of Jesus Christ. It means that without the redeeming power of Christ's sacrifice, we would be cut off from the presence of God because of our sins, not that we would literally become devils. The teachings of the Church emphasize the love of God for His children and His desire for all to return to Him through the grace and mercy offered by Jesus Christ.

Understanding scripture can be complex, and sometimes it's easy to misunderstand without the broader context.

To understand the whole context simple read back where the actual story. See below (words in highlighted could take you to the right context) -

2 That he has spoken unto the Jews, by the mouth of his holy prophets, even from the beginning down, from generation to generation, until the time comes that they shall be restored to the true church and fold of God; when they shall be gathered home to the lands of their inheritance, and shall be established in all their lands of promise.

3 Behold, my beloved brethren, I speak unto you these things that ye may rejoice, and lift up your heads forever, because of the blessings which the Lord God shall bestow upon your children.

4 For I know that ye have searched much, many of you, to know of things to come; wherefore I know that ye know that our flesh must waste away and die; nevertheless, in our bodies we shall see God.

5 Yea, I know that ye know that in the body he shall show himself unto those at Jerusalem, from whence we came; for it is expedient that it should be among them; for it behooveth the great Creator that he suffereth himself to become subject unto man in the flesh, and die for all men, that all men might become subject unto him.

6 For as death hath passed upon all men, to fulfil the merciful plan of the great Creator, there must needs be a power of resurrection, and the resurrection must needs come unto man by reason of the fall; and the fall came by reason of transgression; and because man became fallen they were cut off from the presence of the Lord.

7 Wherefore, it must needs be an infinite atonement—save it should be an infinite atonement this corruption could not put on incorruption. Wherefore, the first judgment which came upon man must needs have remained to an endless duration. And if so, this flesh must have laid down to rot and to crumble to its mother earth, to rise no more.

8 O the wisdom of God, his mercy and grace! For behold, if the flesh should rise no more our spirits must become subject to that angel who fell from before the presence of the Eternal God, and became the devil, to rise no more.

9 And our spirits must have become like unto him, and we become devils, angels to a devil, to be shut out from the presence of our God, and to remain with the father of lies, in misery, like unto himself; yea, to that being who beguiled our first parents, who transformeth himself nigh unto an angel of light, and stirreth up the children of men unto secret combinations of murder and all manner of secret works of darkness.

Does 2 Nephi 9:8 has biblical relevance?

The teachings found in 2 Nephi 9:8, particularly about the Atonement of Jesus Christ and its significance for mankind's redemption, find parallels and support within the Bible as well. This verse talks about the crucial role of Christ’s Atonement in saving mankind from spiritual death and being forever cut off from the presence of God, due to sin.

For example, in the New Testament:

• Romans 6:23 teaches, “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” This verse underscores the idea that sin leads to death (spiritual separation from God), but through Jesus Christ, eternal life is offered—a principle echoed in 2 Nephi 9:8.

• 1 Corinthians 15:22 says, “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” This corresponds with the notion in 2 Nephi 9:8 that without the Atonement, we would be subject to death, but through Christ, we can attain spiritual life.

These biblical teachings and many others highlight the centrality of Jesus Christ’s Atonement in Christian doctrine, emphasizing the need for His sacrifice to overcome sin and death, thus providing a way back to the presence of God. The Book of Mormon and the Bible together offer a fuller understanding of the purpose and necessity of the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

Worship Christ as God or Man? - Ep. 2

Now here's another long senseless post from one of the INC antagonist who claimed to be undisputed. Let's try to look at what his ideology meant on my challenge about the Nature of Christ and see how did it go against biblical theology. And by the way for the record, he got no answers on my first article that address directly to him but rather dodging on a different topic. Just to keep everyone updated since he meant LDS theology is of the devil and yet he can't provide a good definition of their very own teachings. 

So here we go. First he made this long post addressing me and Glen Mari Lamis on our comments about his understanding of Christ Divinity and Nature thinking his post couldn't be answered.

Attention:

Jerry Nuñez Bustillo

Glen Mari R. Lamis

👉 Jer you comment moment ago ~ Jose Magadia ok so you don't worship Christ as a God but you worship him as a Man right?... Jesus Name? So how are you gonna explain that?

👉 Glen, again your comment moments ago ~Jose Magadia so, why you worship Jesus if only God should be worshipped?

👉 Glen your OP dated 10 April ~ If we only worship God and NOT man why worship Jesus Christ who is a man NOT GOD?

👉 Glen your argument on my OP dated 17 April ~ Why not worship John the Baptist, Moses, Abraham, Peter, Paul, etc for the glory of the Father?

Actually, I don't know about the rest of their discussion with Glen, but since he was on the LDS side and to be fair, I'll just include it for him to know that I'm not Biased. This is just a funny part were he collected most of his hated comments that he seems so affected to it. 

So below was his response and possibly some of his excuses. But let's get to it then - 

ANSWER:

Foremost, we the Iglesia Ni Cristo, don't acknowledge Christ as God when we worship Him, simply because it is the TEACHING of Christ Himself that "YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD".

10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD, and 👉 SERVE HIM ONLY.’

- Matthew 4:10 (New International Version)

O yeah of course, the time during Satan confronted Christ on his preparation for his ministry, I can see that. Okay, So while conversing with satan, what was his current state? Was he, immortal and has a glorified body? So, why don't you consider it?

8 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD and 👉 SERVE HIM ONLY.’”

Luke 4:8 (New International Version)

And here's another one from the Gospel of Luke on the same context and background. So what's the point of posting the same biblical background?

And here's what happens next. He tries to make an advance move on his very own ideology thinking this would be the answers of his understanding. See his words below -

 

... but then you reason out... being the Son of God, Jesus should naturally inherit the Godness of His Heavenly Father the ONLY GOD, is your IMMEDIATE CONCLUSION...

... then why did Jesus speak those Words? Because during that very moment, Satan wanted to deceive Jesus into worshiping him(Satan):

6 And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. 7 IF YOU WORSHIP ME, it will all be yours.”

Luke 4:6-7 (New International Version)

... this is the reason why Jesus CORRECTED what the devil wanted into worshiping him....

That's how you simply view it without a broad understanding of the New Testament in General. So how's the Christian view about? So here's my simple response - 

Was Matthew 4:10 says something about Christ as the Lord God we worship?

Absolutely! Matthew 4:10 is part of a significant interaction between Jesus Christ and Satan during Christ's temptation in the wilderness. In this verse, Jesus says to Satan, "Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." Here, Jesus is quoting Deuteronomy 6:13 and reinforcing the commandment that worship is exclusively devoted to the Lord God.

While Jesus doesn't explicitly refer to Himself as the Lord God in this specific verse, it's a part of the broader New Testament narrative that affirms Jesus Christ's divinity and His role as an object of our worship. By rebuking Satan and emphasizing the worship due only to God, Christ upholds His divine identity and authority, which Latter-day Saint teachings also acknowledge and affirm.

This moment is a powerful testament to the importance of worshiping God and serving Him alone, which is a foundational aspect of Latter-day Saint faith. It reminds us of the central role of Jesus Christ as our Savior and as a divine member of the Godhead whom we worship and follow.

Prior to verse 10, as the context of the scripture says: it was Satan who brought him to view the whole kingdom of this world without knowing that Christ as divine in nature owns it. If you'll ask me how Christ owns the Kingdom of this world? Here let me give you an insights - 

Christ's ownership and dominion over all the kingdoms of the world stem from His divine identity and role as the Creator, Savior, and Redeemer. According to Latter-day Saint understanding, Jesus Christ, as the Son of God, played a pivotal role in the creation of the world under the direction of God the Father. This foundational belief is echoed in scriptures found in both the Bible and Latter-day Saint scripture.

In the New Testament, John acknowledges Christ's role in creation, stating, “All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made” (John 1:3). This verse establishes Christ not only as the creator but as an integral authority over the creation.

Moreover, Latter-day Saint doctrine emphasizes that through His Atonement, Jesus Christ overcame physical death and spiritual separation from God, thereby exerting His power and authority to save and redeem all humanity. This act of sacrifice and redemption further solidifies His right to reign over all the kingdoms of the world, as He has bought them with a price, His own blood (see Acts 20:28).

In the Doctrine and Covenants, a volume of Latter-day Saint scripture, it is declared that Christ will ultimately reign on the earth, signifying His dominion and ownership over all the kingdoms of the world: "And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one" (Doctrine and Covenants 133:25, referencing Zechariah 14:9).

These scriptures illustrate the foundational beliefs that Christ's dominion and ownership over the kingdoms of this world are derived from His divine creation, His atoning sacrifice, and His eventual millennial reign.

Question: WHOM Jesus is referring to - to worship the Lord "YOUR" God? Is this the one they thought was Jesus as the Son of God?

Answer: RESOUNDING NO!

... As Jesus said:

17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to MY FATHER AND YOUR FATHER, TO MY GOD AND YOUR GOD.’”

John 20:17 (New International Version)

Using this scripture will fail you to understand Christ Nature if you try to stick to just one angle and the rest of the Context is empty. 

Confused? Let me give you another insights.

This verse from John 20:17 is indeed intriguing and rich in meaning. After His resurrection, Jesus appeared to Mary Magdalene, who, recognizing Him, reached out to Him. Jesus said to her, "Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

When Jesus refers to "my God and your God," it's important to understand this in the context of His dual nature as both divine and mortal. As a being of divine origin – the Son of God – Jesus is indeed divine. However, He also took upon Himself mortality and experienced life as a human, including the relationship with God the Father that all humans are invited to share.

Within Latter-day Saint theology, this statement is understood to affirm the distinct roles within the Godhead: God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Each plays a distinct role in the Godhead’s unified purpose of bringing to pass the immortality and eternal life of humankind. While Jesus is divine, He also shows us the perfect example of recognizing and worshiping God the Father, teaching us the nature of the relationship we are to seek with our Father in Heaven.

Additionally, by stating "my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God," Jesus indicates the intimate relationship that is possible between God and each of His children, one that He, despite His divinity, also experiences and models for us in His role as the Son. This verse underlines the personal relationship we can have with God and reaffirms the unity of purpose in the Godhead.

It's a beautiful illustration of Christ's humility, His role as our mediator and intercessor, and the personal relationship God desires with each of us.

To sum it up, Christ did never attempt to exalt himself above the Father who is the God of all Spirit. Rather he is willing to show his desire to serve, honor and worship the Father. (To learn more about about the Nature of Christ, The Father and the Holy Ghost. See Video).

... in these scenario, Jesus is telling that the God of HIS DISCIPLES, is also HIS GOD, who is none other than the FATHER.

... that the word "YOUR" as PRONOUN do not refer to Himself (Jesus) but directed to the FATHER...

... so, clearly now, as the premise guides us, we SHOULD ONLY WORSHIP the FATHER and ALSO GUIDES US THAT JESUS ​​SHOULD NOT BE WORSHIPED as Jesus himself quips...

So, it is clear that Christ as a man should/must not be worship on your above claim. Now let's see how's your explanation goes on that specific scriptural issue.

THEN WHY WE, THE IGLESIA NI CRISTO WORSHIP JESUS?

... Let's again analyze carefully why we worship Jesus, as Jesus himself clearly proclaimed that THE FATHER IS THE ONE THAT SHOULD BE WORSHIPED AS GOD but 👉 IT IS ALSO NOTABLY THAT GOD HIMSELF WHO COMMANDED US ALL (the CHOSEN FEW) TO KNEEL HEAD BOW TO HIS SON, JESUS:

9 Therefore God EXALTED HIM to the highest place and GAVE HIM THE NAME THAT IS ABOVE EVERY NAME, 

10 that at the NAME OF JESUS EVERY KNEE SHOULD BOW, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 

11 and every tongue ACKNOWLEDGE THAT JESUS CHRIST IS LORD, TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER.

Philippians 2:9-11 (New International Version) 

Do you even care to understand what the scriptures had said in Philippians 2:9-11? Or you simply select the best part on your said doctrine without understanding the prior verses that says everything about Christ. Ok here's a simply context to improve your comprehension.

Philippians 2:5–11 is a profoundly beautiful and theologically rich portion of scripture that emphasizes the humility and exaltation of Jesus Christ. Here's a bit of context and the gist of these verses:

Paul, the apostle, is writing to the Christians in Philippi, a major city of Macedonia, now part of modern-day Greece. The letter to the Philippians is often characterized by its themes of joy, humility, and unity among the followers of Christ.

In Philippians 2:5–11, Paul presents Jesus Christ as the supreme example of humility and obedience to God the Father. This passage is often referred to as the "Kenosis" passage, from the Greek word κενόω (kenoō), meaning "to empty." This term reflects the idea that Christ "emptied" Himself by becoming human, taking on the form of a servant, and being obedient to the point of death—even death on a cross.

The passage can be broken down into two main parts:

Verses 5–8 highlight Christ's humility. Paul encourages believers to have the same mindset as Christ Jesus, who, despite being in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be exploited. Instead, He made Himself nothing by taking on the nature of a servant and coming in human likeness. And humbling Himself even further, He became obedient to death on a cross.

Verses 9–11 then focus on Christ's exaltation by God. Because of His humility and obedience, God highly exalted Him and gave Him the name above every name. At the name of Jesus, every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

This passage is central to Christian theology for its emphasis on Christ's dual nature as fully divine and fully human. It also serves as an ethical example for believers, encouraging humility, selflessness, and unity in their relations with one another, modeling their lives after Christ. It beautifully conveys the core message of the gospel—the self-giving love of Christ, which leads to His exaltation and the eventual recognition of His lordship through the entire creation.

Question: Was Jesus worshiped because He is HUMAN?

Answer: RESOUNDING NO, Jesus is worshiped because of the following statement from God himself:

◾Because of the NAME GIVEN to Him by GOD is ABOVE ALL NAMES.

◾Because of the NAME of JESUS, ALL CREATURES must PRAISE AND WORSHIP Him.

◾Above all, it is the COMMAND of God to worship his Son, Jesus Christ for His GLORY(Philippians 2:11).

... It is the SUPERIOR NAME that Jesus Inherited...

This has already answered on my above statement and clearly you're just selecting only the part where you can justify on that same epistle which Paul said to the Philippians saints. Your cherry-picked ideology doesn't work on that and clearly you don't understand the scripture the way you explain your doctrine.

Let's move ahead to see more of your commentaries.

4 So he became as much superior to the angels as THE NAME HE HAS INHERITED IS SUPERIOR to theirs.

Hebrews 1:4 (New International Version) 

👇👇👇... Even the Angels of God WORSHIP Jesus because of the 👉 NAME given to Him:

6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “LET ALL GOD’S ANGELS WORSHIP HIM.”

Hebrews 1:6 (New International Version)

... Clearly now, the TRUTH that Jesus is WORSHIPED because of the NAME given to Him by God who EXALTED Him(Philippians 2:9). The NAME owned by God, the NAME of God HIMSELF was given to Him(Jesus) the NAME ABOVE ALL NAME...

This was already answered on the first episode of my response of your comments where you simply overlooked some verses that says about Christ and his divinity. Why wouldn't you include Hebrew 1:8 on that same version, rather select just part you like? As I had said already in this article, your cherry-picked ideology doesn't work.

11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. HOLY FATHER, PROTECT THEM BY THE POWER OF YOUR NAME, THE NAME YOU GAVE ME, so that they may be one as we are one.

John 17:11 (New International Version) 

... 👉The Inherited NAME of the FATHER THAT IS WORSHIPED, the NAME GIVEN to Jesus that must WORSHIPED BY ALL CREATURES....

John 17:11 is a part of Jesus's prayer to His Father during the last hours before His crucifixion. This prayer is often called the High Priestly Prayer, where Jesus prays for His disciples and all future believers. In this prayer, He seeks to share His heart and concerns with the Father, focusing particularly on the unity, protection, and sanctification of His followers.

Here's a bit of context and what John 17:11 is about:

John 17:11 (NIV): "I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one."

In this verse, Jesus acknowledges that His time on earth is coming to an end. He is about to leave the world and go to the Father. However, He shows His deep concern for His disciples who are remaining in the world. Jesus asks the Father to protect them in a unique way: "by the power of your name, the name you gave me." This is significant because, in Jewish thought, a name wasn't just an identifier but was believed to carry the essence and power of the person or thing it described. So, when Jesus speaks of being protected by the name the Father has given Him, it implies protection by the very power and authority of God.

The purpose of this protection is unity: "so that they may be one as we are one." Jesus prays for His disciples to experience the same type of unity that He shares with the Father—a perfect, intimate relationship characterized by love, mutual understanding, and purpose. This unity is not just a spiritual ideal but a tangible expression of the divine relationship within the Godhead. It has profound implications for how believers relate to one another, serve together, and witness to the world.

Jesus's prayer in John 17 emphasizes His love and concern for His followers, His desire for their protection from the evil one (as elaborated in subsequent verses), and His hope for their unity and sanctification. It provides a beautiful model of intercessory prayer and a glimpse into the heart of Jesus for His church. To sum up everything, the name that you tried to explain was simply the power and authority of Christ has from the Father according to that context.

2 He said to them, “When you pray, say: “‘Father, HALLOWED BE YOUR NAME, your kingdom come.

Luke 11:2 (New International Version) 

... 👉 the teachings of the bible is clear. Jesus is NOT WORSHIPED by the Iglesia Ni Cristo as God, BUT BECAUSE IT IS THE COMMAND of God, to worship the NAME of Jesus "CHRIST" that was GIVEN to Him for the Glory of God...

You simple tried so hard to mixed up a different context to twist the scriptural teachings of Christ divinity. Luke 11:2 has nothing to do about anything on this topic but rather it's Christ humble prayer to the Father as the God of all Spirit in which everyone should worship the same Father as Christ did.

Luke 11:2 is part of a beautiful section where Jesus teaches His disciples how to pray, responding to one of them who said, "Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples." This moment leads to Jesus presenting what we often call the Lord's Prayer.

In this verse, Jesus begins the prayer with, "When you pray, say: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth." This introduction sets the tone for a prayer that emphasizes the reverence of God's name, the anticipation of His kingdom, and the submission to His will, both in heaven and on earth.

The context here tells us a lot about the importance Jesus places on prayer: it's not just about asking for things, but about acknowledging God's holiness, desiring His reign and rule, and aligning our wills with His divine purposes.

HOW IMPORTANT IS THE NAME GIVEN TO JESUS?

12 SALVATION IS FOUND IN NO ONE ELSE, FOR THERE IS NO OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN GIVEN TO MANKIND BY WHICH WE MUST BE SAVED.”

10 then know this, you and all the people of Israel: IT IS BY THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed.

Acts 4:12, 10 (New International Version)

Now this is how you misunderstood context, but perhaps we can make a good explanation on this one. Remember what I said a while ago about Christ Name as his Power and authority. And during this certain chapter in The Acts of the Apostle, Peter and John were examined by the Jewish Pharisees here's the context.

In Acts 4:5-11, we find a powerful example of the early disciples’ courage and the impact of Jesus Christ’s teachings and resurrection. This passage occurs right after Peter and John heal a man lame from birth at the gate of the temple called Beautiful, which draws considerable attention and leads to a large number of people believing in Jesus Christ (over 5,000, as noted in Acts 4:4).

Peter and John are brought before the Jewish council—the Sanhedrin, which includes rulers, elders, scribes, and notable figures like Annas the high priest, Caiaphas, John, and Alexander. These are the same authorities who played a significant role in the trial and crucifixion of Jesus. The key question they ask Peter and John is by what power or name did they perform the healing.

Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, boldly proclaims that the healing of the lame man was done in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom they had crucified but God raised from the dead. Peter’s declaration is not only a fearless testimony of Jesus’s power and divinity but also an indictment of the leaders’ actions against Jesus. He further emphasizes that there is "no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." This moment illustrates the apostles' unwavering commitment to preaching the Gospel, regardless of the opposition, and the fulfillment of Jesus’s promise that the Holy Spirit would give them the words to say when on trial.

This scene is a key moment in the early church, demonstrating the power of Jesus's name in performing miracles and the boldness the Holy Spirit provides to witness Christ before any audience.

Now, link that on my simple explanation about Christ Authority and Power.

... JESUS was the PROMISED Messiah Matthew 16:13-17/ John 4:25-26...

...The NAME "JESUS" in Christ is so important because it is the SAVIOR of God's people. Worship of Jesus is not the same of worship as God, BUT AS WHAT WE ARE COMMANDED BY GOD FOR US OBEY, and that is a clear GOD'S WILL, that all creatures should PRAISE Him for HIS(God's) GLORY. Thus, the TRUE WORSHIP of God are those who OBEY HIS WILL...

This explanation of yours is simply heresy, why would you keep insisting Christ a mere man where you had already debunked by your own selected verses. Those verse clearly suggests Christ divinity and nature. Do you even know what's John 4 was all about?

John 4:25-26 is a beautiful and critical junction in a conversation between Jesus and a woman from Samaria at Jacob's well. This event is packed with deep doctrinal significance and showcases Jesus' loving outreach to all, including those considered outsiders or less favored by society. Here's a bit of context for you 😊:

Location & Meeting: Jesus, traveling from Judea to Galilee, stops in Samaria at Jacob's well. It was unusual for Jews to travel through Samaria or engage with Samaritans due to long-standing religious and social tensions. Yet, Jesus initiates a conversation with a Samaritan woman who comes to draw water.

Conversation Themes: Their dialogue initially revolves around physical water, but Jesus shifts the topic to offer "living water" — eternal life and salvation. The woman is intrigued but doesn't fully understand.

Spiritual Insight and Revelation: When the conversation turns to worship and where one should worship, the woman speaks of the Messiah (Christ) and her expectation of His coming. This is when Jesus directly reveals Himself to her in verses 25-26:

The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.” Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”

In these verses, Jesus plainly declares He is the Messiah. This direct disclosure is significant, especially considering the cultural and religious barriers of the time. Jesus' declaration to a Samaritan woman, rather than to Jewish religious leaders, underscores His message that salvation and eternal life are available to all, irrespective of nationality, social status, or past.

This interaction also highlights the theme of true worshipers worshiping the Father in spirit and truth, transcending physical locations like Jerusalem or Mount Gerizim, where Samaritans worshiped.

Jesus’ encounter with the Samaritan woman is a powerful testament to His role as the living water and the Savior of the world, reaching out to individuals on a deeply personal level.

31 We know that God does not listen to sinners. HE LISTENS TO THE GODLY PERSON WHO DOES HIS WILL.

John 9:31 - New International Version)

...So this is the true worshiper, THE ONE WHO OBEYS THE WILL OF GOD which is written deep within our hearts and mind...

I just don't know why you're adding it but maybe your point was all about being obedient to God's Will. I don't see any ground of disagreement while the phrases is self explanatory.

8 I desire to do your will, my God; your law is within my heart.”

Psalm 40:8 (New International Version)

Some redundancy of the same subject as above. So I don't see something that needs explanations. You like long words that you think impressive and convincing. If you want to discuss something on me next time, please lessen your words, be straight and direct.

Glen, your argument here ⤵️. 

👉 Worship only God yet worship Christ who is not God, so why not also worship the prophets, apostles and the angels?

• Where in the bible that Jesus mentioned in his gospel that... I am god and worship me? NONE...

• Who among his apostles and followers worship Jesus during his ministry? NONE... 

• What verse that Jesus preach to worship his apostles? NONE

AGAIN, when Jesus is WORSHIPPED, the CREDIT ULTIMATELY GOES BACK to God the Heavenly Father.

10 THAT AT THE NAME OF JESUS EVERY KNEE SHOULD BOW, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, 👉 TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER.

Philippians 2:10-11 (New International Version)

Again, this has been explained clearly, if you dislike the scripture about the subject, then you have a problem. My advice to you Jose Magadia, is to study the scriptural context instead of cherry-picking just parts to satisfy your INC doctrine that doesn't sound biblical. You're excusing every scripture that proves it and simply contradicting on your own understanding. Stop doing that, it won't help you know the true nature of Jesus Christ as the Son of God.

CLOSING REMARK:

This is the truth upheld by the Iglesia Ni Cristo that the Lord Jesus Christ is a Man and not God which is hidden secret to many. In fact, this is one of the Church’s doctrines frequently questioned by different christian denomination of today for it does not only differs and runs counter to their beliefs — that Christ is God which is a clear FALSE DOCTRINE but the correct understanding on the divine nature of Lord Jesus Christ.

It is noticeable that the Holy Bible itself presents many evidences that Christ is not God to be worship but the NAME "JESUS CHRIST " OWNED BY GOD, is to be WORSHIP as explained thoroughly by this comment.

What in the worlds was this all about? "The Name Jesus Christ owned by God" is to be worshiped? Which mean if God would take that name and give it someone else then this will void the real Jesus atone all of the sins? Why in the world you'd accept that Kind of Doctrine?

BE ENLIGHTEN...

PEACE...

Yes, I was but I'm pretty sure you're not enlighten. You're confused on your doctrine and the things you address where simply the reasons of Christ Divinity and here you are telling everyone on your twisted teachings. Would you please don't ever do that if you don't know your scripture well.

We invite you all to attend our worship services near you.

VISIT:

www.Iglesianicristo.net

incmedia.org, the official websites of the lglesia ni Cristo

Yes, yes of course And we also invite you to come and join the real teachings of Jesus Christ that will perhaps enlightened your understanding about Christ true nature, the importance of atonement, the restoration of the Gospel, the plan of salvation, Revelations and Priesthood Authority. It might bring you to the real light and understanding of Gospel of Jesus Christ as the Son of God, and be perfected in Him.

Visit: www.churchofjesuschrist.org

The official website of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

You can also make an appointment by asking the missionaries about the church and how, when or where the restoration takes place or maybe the purpose of life.

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To continue on the rest of his post, below are the rest of the scriptural verses that he added which seems like irrelevant to the topic. But let's just keep it and make a good comment about it if necessary.

PS:

Proverbs 1:5 (English Standard Version) 

5 Let the wise hear and increase in learning, and the one who understands obtain guidance,

Ephesians 3:9 (English Standard Version) 

9 and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God, who created all things,

Doxology

I don't know why he added doxology in a conversations. We're not singing Jose Magadia. What this has to do on you Post?

Romans 16:25 (English Standard Version) 

25 Now to him who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that was kept secret for long ages.

Colossians 1:26 (English Standard Version) 

26 the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now revealed to his saints.

1 Corinthians 2:10 (English Standard Version) 

10 these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.

I don't know exactly why it's here in this topic. And it seems there's nothing to discuss on it. So it's not necessary to add a commentary that has nothing to do with the issue. So let's just move ahead and end it.

FEED YOUR MIND...

Feed my what? I got bored actually in this long post that has a zero understanding on biblical eisegesis and exegesis. How in the world would I feed my mind on that?

PS: Jerry Nuñez Bustillo, please don't block my responses to your comments.

FYI: I never block anyone in responding my post or commenting on it. You'll know you'd been blocked if you can't see me or you can't message me directly in whatever platform. You're over reacting.

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Worship Christ as God or Man? - Ep. 1

As expected,Jose Magadia couldn't answer the last article that I'd address on him that he once boast on me the last time. Now he tries to shift on a different topic thinking it couldn't be answered. Let's find out -

A comment on my post were he tries to change the subject 

The Concern

• Where in the Bible where Christ Preach He is God?
• Where in the bible where the apostles and believers worship Christ as God?

A pretty good question to those people who never knew Christ and it's biblical occurrences. Actually, I had addressed it several times already in this blog, you may check it out somewhere using search form located in this blog page.

Anyway, In the Bible, Jesus implies His divinity in several places rather than making direct statements saying "I am God." His divinity is shown through His actions, the titles He accepts, the prophecies He fulfills, and the way He speaks about His relationship with the Father. Here are a few instances:

• John 8:58 – Jesus said, "Before Abraham was born, I am!" This statement harks back to Exodus 3:14, where God reveals His name to Moses as "I AM." This was understood by His listeners as a claim to divinity, which is why they attempted to stone Him.

• John 10:30 – Jesus said, "I and the Father are one." Again, the Jews picked up stones to stone Him because they understood this as a claim to be God.

• John 14:9 – Philip asks Jesus to show them the Father, and Jesus responds, "He who has seen Me has seen the Father." By equating seeing Him with seeing the Father, Jesus makes a profound claim about His divine nature.

• John 20:28 – After the Resurrection, Thomas the Apostle declares to Jesus, "My Lord and my God!" Jesus does not correct him, which affirms His divinity.

• Philippians 2:6-11 – This passage describes Jesus as "being in the form of God," but not considering equality with God something to be used to His own advantage. This hymn highlights Christ's humility and His divinity.

These passages, among others, are central to Christian belief in the divinity of Jesus Christ. They portray not only His own understanding of His divine nature but also how He is recognized as divine by His followers.

And for the second questions which is actually similar to the first as I could see it's redundancy. But let's get to it straight.

There are several instances in the New Testament where apostles and believers exhibit actions or attitudes toward Jesus that are consistent with worship, recognizing Him as divine. Here are some of the moments where Jesus is given such reverence:

• Matthew 14:33 – After Jesus walks on water and calms the storm, those in the boat worship Him, saying, "Truly you are the Son of God."

• Matthew 28:9 – Following the Resurrection, when Jesus meets the women near the tomb, they come to Him, clasped His feet, and worshiped Him.

• John 20:28 – Thomas, upon seeing the risen Christ and His wounds, exclaims, "My Lord and my God!" This acknowledgment from Thomas is a declaration of worship and recognition of Jesus’s divine identity.

• Luke 24:52 – After Jesus ascends into heaven, the disciples worship Him and then return to Jerusalem with great joy.

Hebrews 1:6 – In speaking of Jesus, the author of Hebrews says, "And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, 'Let all God’s angels worship him.'" This indicates the divine status of Jesus and that even angels are commanded to worship Him.

These examples illustrate the recognition of Jesus's divine nature by His followers and their response of worship towards Him. The New Testament, through these instances, subtly but powerfully affirms the divinity of Christ as understood by His earliest followers.

Additionally, Hebrews 1:8 is part of an argument the author of Hebrews makes about the superiority of Christ above angels and His divine nature. The verse states, "But about the Son he says, 'Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.'" This verse is actually a quotation from Psalm 45:6, applied to Jesus to affirm His divine status and eternal reign.

The context of Hebrews 1 is crucial. In this chapter, the author aims to establish Jesus Christ's divinity and His position as the Son of God, which surpasses the angels. The chapter begins by emphasizing that God has spoken through His Son in these last days, and that the Son is the heir of all things, through whom also He made the universe.

The quotation of Psalm 45:6 in Hebrews 1:8 serves as a powerful testimony to the Son’s divine nature and eternal kingship. By using Old Testament scripture to describe Jesus, the author of Hebrews makes a compelling argument to his primarily Jewish audience, highlighting that Jesus Christ embodies the fulfillment of the scriptures.

Following this verse, Hebrews 1:9 continues the quote from Psalm 45, emphasizing the righteousness of the Son's kingdom. This way, the passage celebrates Christ's eternal reign, His love of righteousness, and His hatred of wickedness, further underscoring His divine attributes and the legitimacy of His kingship.

The entire first chapter of Hebrews essentially sets the stage for the rest of the epistle, which delves into the supremacy of Christ's priesthood, His sacrifice, and His covenant, contrasted with the old covenant and priesthood.

There are other passage of Scriptures that said about Christ Divinity and Nature. This passages throughout the scriptures illuminate the divine nature and the divinity of Jesus Christ. Let's look at a few examples from the Bible and the Book of Mormon:

From the Bible:

• John 1:1, 14 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”

• Colossians 2:9 “For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”

• Hebrews 1:3 “Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;”

From the Book of Mormon, this was also confirmed and highlighted of Christ:

• 2 Nephi 26:12 “And as I spake concerning the convincing of the Jews, that Jesus is the very Christ, it must needs be that the Gentiles be convinced also that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God.”

• Mosiah 5:7 “And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters.”

• Alma 11:38-39 “Now Zeezrom saith again unto him: Is the Son of God the very Eternal Father? And Amulek said unto him: Yea, he is the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth, and all things which in them are; he is the beginning and the end, the first and the last;”

These passages, among others, underscore not only Christ's divine nature but also His integral role in the plan of salvation, embodying both the physical and spiritual salvation for mankind. They depict Him as the Creator, the Redeemer, and the Sustainer of all life and existence.

Now you know, Be Enlightened.

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Responding: Jose Magadia's Comment - Are Jesus and Satan Brothers?

Jose Magadia's attempt of responding the Article on "Are Jesus and Satan Brothers?" Here we'll see if he made a successful attempt or simply heresy of biblical theology. Let's find out -

In his first move, he simply copied Isaiah 14:12-16 and leave a question left unanswered. I will not add the rest of Isaiah words since it was just a copy but let find out what's the question that he failed to answer. (See below)

Lucifer was “a son of the morning”, but who was his father? Perhaps The Father? How many Fathers are there?

So here's the question after inserting Isaiah's words. He added different context after his question leaving the rest of Isaiah's word unanswered and twisted. Let see his next move -

Job 1

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

Question: Why was Satan among them? 

Answer: Perhaps it was because he was one of the sons of God.

I don't know exactly how this one supports his understanding of the Isaiah's words, or perhaps he made an attempt to add this on the topic suggesting that it was part of my understanding. Or perhaps he doesn't know the term used in biblical theology. So far as I could see it has nothing to do on my article.

Lds Group love to say, “You don’t worship the Jesus of the Bible, Our(Lds) Jesus is the brother of the devil.”

Lds Group have to invent ways to try to redefine Jesus Christ of the bible based on their own understanding of the scriptures. Their lies are catching up with them.

Okay, so how was bubbling with your own ideology was a response to a simple question? You simply tries to lengthen a small Article puting words that doesn't make any sense. You just love to see long post and redundancies but never understood how and what the scriptures meant.

...mind you...

🔎 According to the scriptures:

The angels were created before man was created. 

Lucifer was a covering cherub.

He is described in Ezekiel 28 as the king of Tyre starting at verse 11 through to verse 19.  Verses 1-10 addresses the prince of Tyre who was an actual ruler of Tyre, a fortified impenetrable island which was extremely wealthy.  Tyre was finally conquered by Alexander the Great.

👉 Ezekiel 28:14-17 NKJV 14 "You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. 15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you. 16 "By the abundance of your trading You became filled with violence within, And you sinned; Therefore I cast you as a profane thing Out of the mountain of God; And I destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the fiery stones. 17 "Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor; I cast you to the ground, I laid you before kings, That they might gaze at you.

It seems like you are trying to add Lucifer in a context that doesn't fit in biblical theology. Seriously bro? What's the context of the scripture and how was Satan or Lucifer was there?

Here's the context of that If you look closely from verse 11 as part of the prophecy. It was to be address to the King of Tyre and in verses Ezekiel 28:14-17 is a part of a prophecy directed against the king of Tyre, found in the Old Testament. This passage, along with the broader chapter, uses symbolic language to address the pride and downfall of the king, comparing him to a fallen angel or cherub.

In these verses, the king is depicted as being in Eden, the garden of God, covered in precious stones and anointed as a guardian cherub. This imagery symbolizes the king's once exalted state and close relationship to divine things. However, because of his pride and trade, he sinned, leading to violence and corruption. Thus, he was cast down from his high position by God.

The context here reflects a broader theme often found in scriptures about the dangers of pride and how it leads to a fall from grace. The symbolic use of Eden and a cherub likely serves to emphasize the height from which the king has fallen, showing that even those with great beauty and responsibility can be corrupted by pride and wickedness.

So was this all about Lucifer? Obviously, No!

Now, here the rest of his words -

Lucifer was created to be an angel.  All angels were a separate creation from man.

And how was this supposed to be an answer? Why are you adding things that doesn't even there biblically. And as your ideology goes that angels were a separate creation. Maybe or maybe not, remember that God himself is the Father of all spirit and when I say all, that includes the angels (Hebrews 1:5). Those angels were not just sentient beings that we call in this world are animals. God would never do that to his children. Christ once said - 

For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. (Matthew 22:30, Mark 12:25)

The context of course is different but the subject is there were you fail to understand. Another fact was actually in your own INC belief and teaching who agree that Felix Manalo was the Choose Messenger of God and you call him as the Angel. That would make Felix Manalo a different being if you think of the same subject that "all angels are different beings".

Jesus was a man telling the truth, John 8:40...

⤵️ The man Christ Jesus WASN'T THERE as a different entity, because the man WASN'T CONCEIVED and BORN YET during God's creation. He was only there because He EXISTS in the mind of God(1Pet 1:20/ Rom 1:2-4/ Acts 2:23; 17:31) he is the central part on the grand design plan of God, ~ meaning that the Spirit of Jesus existed from all eternity as central part on the grand plan of God as the mediator between God and man (1Tim. 2:5) and for Him(Jesus) to rule and govern (Cols 1:15-17/ 1 Cor 15:27-28) of all God's creation. When the man Jesus was born, the scripture says that the man Jesus was slain from the foundation of the world is again the central part of the grand plan of God ~ BUT IT HAD ALREADY HAPPENED IN THE MIND OF GOD. 

This had nothing to do with the article at all, and yet you try to add this in dodging the questions that I'd made for you to ponder. If you want me to respond your statement about Christ Divinity and Nature, it will be on different post, but as of this subject. None of those answers my question.

⤵️ Christ Jesus became a Son of God at his birth (Matthew and Luke) and annointed on his baptism (Mark) and for good measure at his resurrection (Paul). 

Okay so what was this all about? How did it addressed the issue? Seems like you're trying to change the subject. We can arrange a different topic on this one. So it's irrelevant to open up a different subject that doesn't even a link on the issue.

⤵️ According to the holy scriptures:

Lord Christ Jesus was born a MAN, raised and live a MAN, died a MAN, resurrected a MAN, ascended to heaven a MAN, seated at the right of God a MAN and in his second coming - a MAN. His natural state has never changed (1 Cor. 15:21-45,47-49/ Romans 8:3). 

Let me just give you a short response on this different subject you try to insist. You're wrong if you do think Christ never change his state. Remember the time during Christ words in his prayer to the Father he said this -

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Notice on the highlighted words. In this short scripture alone gives us light and understanding about Christ Nature before he was born. The word he said "with the Glory I had with thee..." Which means he was there before and had the same glory with the Father before the world was created. So Christ is the same being as before, now and beyond. Basically I'm saying he is the same Yesterday, Today and Forever. He is not a human before he was born and the word human as we call it mortal and imperfect being. So please stop insisting your own ideology and INC doctrine that doesn't even support the Bible.

1 John 4:2-3

Contemporary English Version

2 and you can know which ones come from God. His Spirit says that Jesus Christ HAD A TRULY HUMAN BODY. 3 But when someone doesn't say this about Jesus, you know this person has a spirit that doesn't come from God and is the enemy of Christ. You knew this enemy was coming into the world and now is already here.

This is the most awkward INC moment that I'd ever read. Actually the King James version use a different words on this one but let's take a look what this all mean.

Let's read some of the commentaries of biblical scholars about this text and how Christianity views it.

From Barnes' Notes on the Bible -

(1) it is not the obvious interpretation.

(2) it is unusual to say that Jesus "had come in the flesh," though the expression "the Son of God has come in the flesh," or "God was manifested in the flesh," would be in accordance with the usage of the New Testament.

(3) this would not, probably, meet the real point in the case. The thing denied does not appear to have been that Jesus was the Messiah, for their pretending to be Christian teachers at all implied that they admitted this; but that the Son of God was "really a man," or that he actually assumed human nature in permanent union with the divine. The point of the remark made by the apostle is, that the acknowledgment was to be that Christ assumed human nature; that he was really a man as he appeared to be: or that there was a real incarnation, in opposition to the opinion that he came in appearance only, or that he merely seemed to be a man, and to suffer and die. That this opinion was held by many, see the Introduction, Section III. 2. It is quite probable that the apostle here refers to such sentiments as those which were held by the "Docetae;" and that he meant to teach that it was indispensable to proper evidence that anyone came from God, that he should maintain that Jesus was truly a man, or that there was a real incarnation of the Son of God. John always regarded this as a very important point, and often refers to it, John 19:34-35; John 20:25-27; 1 John 5:6. It is as important to be held now as it was then, for the fact that there was a real incarnation is essential to all just views of the atonement. If he was not truly a man, if he did not literally shed his blood on the cross, of course all that was done was in appearance only, and the whole system of redemption as revealed was merely a splendid illusion. There is little danger that this opinion will be held now, for those who depart from the doctrine laid down in the New Testament in regard to the person and work of Christ, are more disposed to embrace the opinion that he was a mere man; but still it is important that the truth that he was truly incarnate should be held up constantly before the mind, for in no other way can we obtain just views of the atonement.

And some others from Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary to sustain this matter. 

Jesus Christ is come in the flesh—a twofold truth confessed, that Jesus is the Christ, and that He is come (the Greek perfect tense implies not a mere past historical fact, as the aorist would, but also the present continuance of the fact and its blessed effects) in the flesh ("clothed with flesh": not with a mere seeming humanity, as the Docetæ afterwards taught: He therefore was, previously, something far above flesh). His flesh implies His death for us, for only by assuming flesh could He die (for as God He could not), Hebrews 2:9, 10, 14, 16; and His death implies His LOVE for us (Joh 15:13). To deny the reality of His flesh is to deny His love, and so cast away the root which produces all true love on the believer's part (1 John 4:9-11, 19). Rome, by the doctrine of the immaculate conception of the Virgin Mary, denies Christ's proper humanity.

Did you catch it Jose Magadia? Did you notice how the scholars schooled you on your understanding about biblical theology?

Acts 1:10-11

New International Version 

10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? THIS SAME JESUS, WHO HAS BEEN TAKEN FROM YOU INTO HEAVEN, WILL COME BACK IN THE SAME WAY YOU HAVE SEEN HIM GO INTO HEAVEN. 

DID YOU SEE THAT, Jesus WILL COME BACK as HUMAN BEING as attested by the scriptures. 

This is a total foolish interpretation as I see it. How in the world dies it says he will come back as human being? Jesus had already conquered death and pain and was now immortal, how does it defines a human?

And if you insisted that kind of ideology, that Christ will comeback as human. Then you're against what Paul has said in

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

There's only One being will appear in the last days, and that is the Christ, it is not His Father and everyone accepted that same teachings even INC. So, do you think Paul was wrong? Have you ever wonder why this INC doctrine doesn't supports biblical bases, but rather create confusions and contradictions? Have you ever wonder that to yourself Jose Magadia?

Moving forward to end this commentary, let's go ahead a make a conclusion.

Clearly again, Lds Group once more proved that they have the doctrine of the devil. 

Nope, Clearly you fail to understand the scriptures. So it is a Fact that INC didn't study the scriptures and only copy paste to whatever source they think seems fit in their doctrine. All in all this INC doctrine is not based on biblical evidence and theology, but rather a heresy, and see how you dodge the subject in inserting a different topic just to avoid your failure in understanding the article. You fail but you can still do it the second time if you want to

 Returning my response: Mind you... PEACE...

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