Jehovah Witnesses: Elder, I have a question for you that will require detailed explanation. If I am not mistaken, the Latter-day Saints claim that Jesus of the New Testament was Jehovah of the old. Now, if this is the case, I have two scriptures that definitely prove your own theory of the Godhead false. We find in Psalms 110:1-2 “The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies as thy footstool. The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion.” Now, who sat at the right hand of the Lord Jehovah – Acts 7:55-56 tells us it was Christ – and the capital letters in the scripts refers to Jehovah. Now, Acts 3:13 establishes once and for all that Jehovah is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It reads: “The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, and the God of our fathers hath glorified HIS SON JESUS; whom ye delivered up.” I refer you to Exodus 6:13 which shows that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was none other than Jehovah. These two scriptures absolutely prove the Mormon theory of God false.
Missionaries: You are to be commended for your choice of scriptures, because both are excellent questions and will require detailed explanations. We do believe Christ of the New Testament was Jehovah of the old. In answer to Psalms 110:1-2 would you please turn to 1 Cor. 15:24-25 which proves the Lord in capital letters was Christ. It reads, “Then cometh the end, when He shall have delivered up the Kingdom of God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rules and all authority and power. FOR HE MUST REIGN, TIL HE HATH PUT ALL ENEMIES UNDER HIS FEET.” So, it was Christ that was to put all the enemies under His feet, and since you said the LORD in capital letters referred to Jehovah, and Jehovah was to reign until all enemies were under this feet, then Jehovah, by your own admission, must be Christ. If you ask who the Lord was in small letters, you will find in Acts 3:19-21 that God our Heavenly Father is referred to by the small letters “Lord”. Note that in Isa. 43: 1-15, it refers to the LORD as the redeemer and savior. That would be Christ of the New Testament. Now, Acts 3:13 will require a more detailed explanation. We must first establish that Jehovah of the Old Testament was Christ of the New using other scriptures. Isa. 12:1-2 informs us that the God of our Salvation, the Lord Jehovah, was Isaiah’s strength and His song, and it also says “HE ALSO IS BECOME MY SALVATION.” Acts 4:12 informs us that, (speaking of Christ), “There is salvation by none other, for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby men may be saved.” Therefore, as we have clearly established, Jehovah was Isaiah’s salvation and Jesus was Peter’s salvation, and since Jesus was the only name given under heaven whereby man could be saved, Jesus was Jehovah. In Zech. 12:10 the Lord Jehovah was speaking, and said “and they shall look upon ME whom they have pierced.” In John 19:37 we find out who it was speaking of, when we read, “They shall look on him whom they have pierced” referring to Christ on the cross. In your own New World translation, we read in Rev. 22:12-13, “Look, I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to render to each on as his work is. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” Verse 16 tells us who was “coming quickly” – Jesus Christ. Therefore as the scriptures pointed out, Christ was the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. We then turn to Rev. 1:8 in your New World translation, and it reads, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, says Jehovah God, the one who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.” Here it proves without any doubt that the Alpha and the Omega was Jehovah, and who, in Chapter 22, was Christ – so by the New World translation of the scripture, it clearly points out Jehovah was Christ. If you still doubt that Christ was Jehovah, turn to Rev. 1:8 and read carefully until you come to verse 17 and 18, which reads, “Do not be fearful. I am the First and the Last, (the definition of Alpha and Omega), and the living one; and I BECAME DEAD, BUT LOOK: I am living forever and ever, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.” Now, we have established Christ as Jehovah from both translations. We then read, “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth” (Genesis 1:1), and Paul pointed out in Col. 1:16 that “By him (Christ) were all things created that are in Heaven, and that are in earth.” Now, in Acts 3:3, Peter was faced with a difficult situation, because he had to testify of Christ, and still put over the point that though He was Jehovah it was God the Father that had raised him from the dead. The people understood clearly that men had a spirit, so Peter spoke of their Spiritual Creator – WHO WAS THE CREATOR OF THE SPIRITS OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC, AND JACOB, and, therefore, could be called the “Father of the Spirits” or Christ’s Father. Then He would not confuse them with the creator of all physical bodies, Christ, who as Colossians 1:16; John 1:1-3; Heb.1;1-3 all pointed out “Created all things that are in heaven and that are on earth.” Making this distinction, He easily pointed out that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob’s spirits, had glorified His son (Whom, with His Father, created our physical bodies, and therefore the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob also) whom they had delivered up and crucified. Heb. 12:9 speaks of the “Father of our Spirits” which is the Father of our Lord, Jesus Christ. So you see, both God and Christ were the “Gods of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob” only God the Father was the creator of spirits, and Christ the Creator of Bodies under the direction and assistance of the Father. If you had “all truth” you would have known this. The only way you can have “all truth” is to accept what the prophet Amos said which is to accept living prophets who are the only people to whom God will give revelation.
Jehovah Witnesses: That is ridiculous, because you will notice that Jehovah breathed into men the “Breath (or Spirit) of life.” Therefore Christ would have been the creator of their spirits, and your argument collapses.
Missionaries: Just because Christ placed the spirit in man doesn’t make him the Creator of that Spirit. And we already established that breath and spirit were not the same thing. Therefore, by reading the scriptures, we can place the correct interpretation when we take the scripture in its context. Notice Eccl. 12:7 when the body dies and returns to the earth, the spirit of man returns to the God who gave it.
Jehovah Witnesses: You know this scripture reaffirms our conviction of only a spiritual resurrection. The LDS plan of salvation teaches that a man’s spirit leaves his body and goes to a spirit world to await resurrection. This is both illogical and absurd. Eccl. 9:5 informs us “that the living know that they shall die, but the DEAD KNOW NOT ANYTHING, NEITHER HAVE THEY ANY MORE REWARD: for the memory of them is forgotten.” We go on to read in Eccl. 9:10 “Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, no Knowledge, nor wisdom in the grave, whither thou goest.” How, if there is no more wisdom, knowledge, work or device and the dead know not anything, why do you teach “work in the spirit world” and baptism for the dead? Why is your doctrine so contrarily opposed to the word of God?
Missionaries: I believe that one of the many doctrines that are taught in the Holy Scriptures, the doctrine of the spirit leaving the body is perhaps the clearest of all, along with the Godhead. I maintain that the two scriptures you have just referred to are speaking only of our physical bodies, and we believe that they will “return to the dust” and that in the grave they will not know anything nor have wisdom, because our spirits will not be in the grave with our bodies, but will “have returned unto God who gave it.” (Eccl. 12:7) You see, by such a doctrine, you have created a major problem in your movement. We read in Matthew 17:3 that Moses and Elias appeared to Christ, Peter, James and John “talking with them” yet Deut. 34:5-6 teaches us that “Moses, the servant of the LORD, died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord.” This means Moses had been dead for hundreds of years, and “Christ was the first fruits of them that slept, (1 Cor. 15:20), so how did Moses possibly talk with them if He had not yet been resurrected, and he was still in the grave, (spirit and body)? This scripture proves without a doubt that the spirit does leave the body, and can talk, and in this case, communicate with man. Also, this teaches that there has not yet been any resurrection, yet Matthew 27:51-53 informs us that “The veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; AND THE GRAVES WERE OPENED; AND MANY BODIES OF THE SAINTS WHICH SLEPT AROSE, and came out of the grave after His (Christ’s) resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.” How clear do you want the scripture to read? 1 Cor. 15:6, along with many other passages, refers to “sleep” as death. Now, if the dead have no reasoning, then Peter should have learned the gospel from the Jehovah Witness, because He taught “For this cause was the Gospel preached also TO THEM THAT ARE DEAD, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.” Why would the gospel be preached to the dead if they had no reasoning, nor knowledge, nor wisdom? The answer is found in the last seven words of that scripture, because they “live according to God in the spirit.” And since they await a literal and physical resurrection as was experienced in Matthew 27:51-53, they will be resurrected with their bodies “that returned to the dust”. Paul taught this doctrine in ancient time to the Philippians, when he said that Christ would “Change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body,” (Phil. 3:21), which was flesh and bones, (Luke 24:36-39). It was my understanding that you gentlemen teach the doctrine that only 144,000 will stand before the throne of God, and that they will be righteous souls. The rest of the righteous will “inherit the earth”. In light of these scriptures you would have a problem explaining your 144,000. However if you really want to understand this you would have to accept living prophets and modern revelation including “The Book of Mormon”.
Jehovah Witnesses: We teach that 144,000 will stand before the throne of God as special witnesses. These 144,000 have already been chosen, and not all can be numbered with them. This is taught in the Book of Revelation. In Rev. 8:4 we read “Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the tress, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads, and I heard the number of them which were sealed; and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand, of all the tribes of the children of Israel.” We read where they were “married” to the church and therefore in Rev. 14:4 “were not defiled with women, for they were virgins.” It was the 144,000 that stood on Mount Zion with the mark of the Father in their foreheads, (Rev.14:1), and sung “as it were a new song before the throne and before the four beasts, and the elders, and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, WHICH WERE REDEEMED FROM THE EARTH.” So you can see they were special servants, redeemed from the earth, and as such were the only ones that were before the throne night and day. It goes on to say that “these follow the Lamb (Christ) whithersoever He goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the first fruits unto God and to them Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile; for they are without fault before the Throne of God.” I think these scriptures clearly support our stand.
Missionaries: Thank you for your explanation. I would like to now show you that the 144,000, though they were special, were not the only ones that would live before the throne. Careful examination of the scriptures would reveal this, and I declare that those of the Church of Jesus Christ were the only ones that could stand before the throne, and they were far more numerous than 144,000. You quoted in Rev. 7:1-8 and then skipped to verse 15 and said this had reference to the 144,000. This is absolutely false. Another scriptural rail split. John was taken in a vision, and after seeing 144,000 (verse 9) he records “Behold and lo, I beheld a great multitude which no man could number, of all nations, kindreds, tongues and people which STOOD BEFORE THE THRONE AND BEFORE THE LAMB, CLOTHED WITH WHITE ROBES.” How many is it that can not be numbered? Then in verse 13 one of the “four and twenty Elders” asked “who are these which are arrayed in white robes? and when came they?” John answered and said, “Sir, thou knowest.” The angel then said, speaking of those in white robes, (Which was the multitude which no man could number), “These are they which came out of the great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. THEREFORE ARE THEY BEFORE THE THRONE OF GOD, AND SERVE HIM DAY AND NIGHT IN HIS TEMPLE: AND HE THAT SITTETH ON THE THRONE SHALL DWELL AMONG THEM.” So the 144,000 would not only stand before the throne, but also the great multitude, representing the twelve tribes. They were members of the “Church of the Firstborn” (Heb. 12:24) as was a requirement of the multitude. If they were not members of the Church, as Hebrews points out, crossed with Revelations, then they had no hope of heaven. Again in modern day revelation and scriptures we could shed even additional light on this subject, if you really wanted to have “all truth”.