Here's another Job Bautista fail Study. It's kinda funny though and how he made some assumptions about the propagation of The LDS in Book of Mormon times. Without further ado let's dive in - see text in red for my comments.
His introduction -
[Job Bautista]
Jerry Nuñez Bustillo
Lds cult church propagation start from the Southwart to Northward ; read -
And he thinks it is the start of LDS church using the Book of Mormon as evidence of some puzzles that he can't solve.
[Job Bautista]Helaman 3: 8 And it came to pass that they did multiply and spread, and did go forth from the land southward to the land northward, and did spread insomuch that they began to cover the face of the whole earth, from the sea south to the sea north, from the sea west to the sea east.
This story is not even related to any ministry or proselyting or whatever missionary related. This was all about the spread of their community southward of the land and they start their living. To understand the Context Job Bautista since you are always out of context and does not even care what you quoted, here's the part of it to see that it was not about sending missionary abroad, but rather their travel to the entire land to build their houses and whatsoever they can live.
[Helaman 3]
4 And they did travel to an exceedingly great distance, insomuch that they came to large bodies of water and many rivers.
5 Yea, and even they did spread forth into all parts of the land, into whatever parts it had not been rendered desolate and without timber, because of the many inhabitants who had before inherited the land.
6 And now no part of the land was desolate, save it were for timber; but because of the greatness of the destruction of the people who had before inhabited the land it was called desolate.
7 And there being but little timber upon the face of the land, nevertheless the people who went forth became exceedingly expert in the working of cement; therefore they did build houses of cement, in the which they did dwell.
8 And it came to pass that they did multiply and spread, and did go forth from the land southward to the land northward, and did spread insomuch that they began to cover the face of the whole earth, from the sea south to the sea north, from the sea west to the sea east.
9 And the people who were in the land northward did dwell in tents, and in houses of cement, and they did suffer whatsoever tree should spring up upon the face of the land that it should grow up, that in time they might have timber to build their houses, yea, their cities, and their temples, and their synagogues, and their sanctuaries, and all manner of their buildings.
So, what was it all about Job Bautista? Will I guest the Book of Mormon already explain that to you? Do you understand what you are point out or the doctrine of Manalo? I guess you need some Reading Comprehension. It's a Problems, you know.
[Job Bautista]
If you can see the propagation of the Lds church start from southward to Northward and they cover the face of the whole Earth ? And from the sea North , from the sea west to the East according to the BOM.
As I have said, it was not about the propagation or spreading of the Gospel. You just need some work out of your brain cells. Read the context and find something about sending missionaries or preaching the Gospel. You can't find it there because it wasn't all about it.
[Job Bautista]
We are sure that the the Lds church is not the true Church , because the direction of their propagation and place is different from direction of the prophecy of God written in the Bible . They are not the chosen people of God , they are the goats at the left hand of Jesus as describe.
And I'm pretty sure you are even worse than goats. And it was not yet spread during the time of Isaiah. Christ even proclaimed to avoid the way of the Gentile. You are just too slow to understand the scripture because of the bigoted teaching that you always insisted on.
Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Did Christ say something about preaching to the Gentiles? He clearly explains to avoid Gentiles' way for the gospel is not yet prepared for them. The propagation of the Gospel during Christ's time was yet limited to the Tribe of Israel. So how come the Philippines was the other sheep and how did they fulfill the prophecy while the gospel wasn't yet preached to them?
From the far east I will bring your offspring, and from the far west I will gather you.” (Isa. 43:5, Moffat Translation)
You use the Moffat version because of the Word Far East, but you can't confirm that in Hebrew Writings. Your cherry-picking won't work if you can't accept the fact that it has nothing to do with the Philippines as the Location of Isaiah's Prophecy. I have gaven you this information already from our previous discussions but you can't accept it. Let's try to look at it in Hebrew -
Do notאַל־ (’al-)
Adverb
Strong's 408: Not
be afraid,
תִּירָ֖א (tî·rā)
Verb - Qal - Imperfect - second person masculine singular
Strong's 3372: To fear, to revere, caus, to frighten
for
כִּ֣י (kî)
Conjunction
Strong's 3588: A relative conjunction
I
אָ֑נִי (’ā·nî)
Pronoun - first person common singular
Strong's 589: I
am with you;
אִתְּךָ־ (’it·tə·ḵā-)
Preposition | second person masculine singular
Strong's 854: Nearness, near, with, by, at, among
I will bring
אָבִ֣יא (’ā·ḇî)
Verb - Hifil - Imperfect - first person common singular
Strong's 935: To come in, come, go in, go
your offspring
זַרְעֶ֔ךָ (zar·‘e·ḵā)
Noun - masculine singular construct | second person masculine singular
Strong's 2233: Seed, fruit, plant, sowing-time, posterity
from the east,
מִמִּזְרָח֙ (mim·miz·rāḥ)
Preposition-m | Noun - masculine singular
Strong's 4217: Place of sunrise, the east
and gather you
אֲקַבְּצֶֽךָּ׃ (’ă·qab·bə·ṣe·kā)
Verb - Piel - Imperfect - first person common singular | second person masculine singular
Strong's 6908: To gather, collect
from the west.
וּמִֽמַּעֲרָ֖ב (ū·mim·ma·‘ă·rāḇ)
Conjunctive waw, Preposition-m | Noun - masculine singular
Strong's 4628: The west
So the Moffat Version has the Far East and this is not a problem of a normal reader who knows the context of the scripture. Isaiah Prophecy was all about the bondage of Israel to the other nation especially the Babylonian though during those times the Israelites are captives and some of them were wandering from the East to gain a living and land for their inheritances. To understand Isaiah's Prophecy we should go back to the very beginning of the chapter for us to know to whom it was addressed. And here's how it said -
I'm using New American Standard Version to these verses
1 But now, this is what the LORD says, He who is your Creator, Jacob, And He who formed you, Israel: “Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name; you are Mine!2 “When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they will not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you will not be scorched, Nor will the flame burn you.
3 “For I am the LORD your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior; I have given Egypt as your ransom, [a]Cush and Seba in exchange for you.
4 “Since you are precious in My sight, Since you are honored and I love you, I will give other people in your place and other nations in exchange for your life.
5 “Do not fear, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east, And gather you from the west.
This was all about the Promises of God to his Chosen people Israel and how they will be gathered even from a far country. It was never about the propagation or the missionary work but rather a physical gathering of the lost people or tribe of Israel.
OK so, I made so much explanation and it seems like it's your homework that I work out. You should know that Job Bautista, you're already matured enough to see how these things are irrelevant to your doctrine. This doesn't prove anything about the Philippines.
Let's try to look at some of the translations to confirm this scripture and that Job Bautista will not just still to just one favorite version of Scripture just to meet the qualification of their doctrine. That doesn't seem right. If you think that is, then I challenge you INC to ask God in revelation to help you provide your version of the Bible rather than just pick something just right on your side. Okay so here's the other translation and I added your Favorite Lamsa version Job Bautista.
Modern Translations
- New International Version - Do not be afraid, for I am with you; I will bring your children from the east and gather you from the west.
- New Living Translation - “Do not be afraid, for I am with you. I will gather you and your children from east and west.
- English Standard Version - Fear not, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east, and from the west I will gather you.
- Berean Study Bible - Do not be afraid, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east and gather you from the west.
- New American Standard Bible - “Do not fear, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east, And gather you from the west.
- NASB 1995 - "Do not fear, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east, And gather you from the west.
- NASB 1977 - “Do not fear, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east, And gather you from the west.
- Amplified Bible - “Do not fear, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east [where they are scattered], And gather you from the west.
- Christian Standard Bible - Do not fear, for I am with you; I will bring your descendants from the east, and gather you from the west.
- Holman Christian Standard Bible - Do not fear, for I am with you; I will bring your descendants from the east, and gather you from the west.
- Contemporary English Version - Don't be afraid! I am with you. From both east and west I will bring you together.
- Good News Translation - Do not be afraid--I am with you! "From the distant east and the farthest west I will bring your people home.
- GOD'S WORD® Translation - Do not be afraid, because I am with you. I will bring your descendants from the east and gather you from the west.
- International Standard Version - "Don't be afraid, for I am with you; I'll bring your children from the east, and gather you from the west.
- NET Bible - Don't be afraid, for I am with you. From the east I will bring your descendants; from the west I will gather you.
- King James Bible - Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;
- New King James Version - Fear not, for I am with you; I will bring your descendants from the east, And gather you from the west;
- King James 2000 Bible - Fear not: for I am with you: I will bring your descendants from the east, and gather you from the west;
- New Heart English Bible - Do not be afraid; for I am with you. I will bring your descendants from the east, and gather you from the west.
- World English Bible - Don't be afraid; for I am with you. I will bring your seed from the east, and gather you from the west.
- American King James Version - Fear not: for I am with you: I will bring your seed from the east, and gather you from the west;
- American Standard Version - Fear not; for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;
- A Faithful Version - Fear not; for I am with you. I will bring your seed from the east, and gather you from the west.
- Darby Bible Translation - Fear not, for I [am] with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;
- English Revised Version - Fear not; for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;
- Webster's Bible Translation - Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;
- Geneva Bible of 1587 - Feare not, for I am with thee: I will bring thy seede from the East, and gather thee from the West.
- Bishops' Bible of 1568 - Feare not, for I am with thee, I will bryng thy seede from the east, and gather thee together from the west.
- Coverdale Bible of 1535 - that thou shuldest not feare, for I was with the. I wil bringe thy sede from the east, and gather the together from the west.
- Literal Standard Version - Do not be afraid, for I [am] with you, "" I bring in your seed from the east, "" And I gather you from the west.
- Young's Literal Translation - Be not afraid, for I am with thee, From the east I bring in thy seed, And from the west I gather thee.
- Smith's Literal Translation - Thou shalt not fear, for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the sunrisings, and from the west I will gather thee.
- Douay-Rheims Bible - Fear not, for I am with thee: I will. bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west.
Catholic Public Domain Version - Catholic Public Domain Version - Fear not, for I am with you. I will lead your offspring from the East, and I will gather you from the West.
- Peshitta Holy Bible Translated - You shall not fear, because I am with you. I shall bring your seed from the East, and from the West I shall gather you
Lamsa Bible - Lamsa Bible - Fear not; for I am with you; I will bring your descendants from the east, and gather you from the west;
- JPS Tanakh 1917 - Fear not, for I am with thee; I will bring thy seed from the east, And gather thee from the west;
Brenton Septuagint Translation - Brenton Septuagint Translation - Fear not; for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and will gather thee from the west.
- Berean Study Bible - Do not be afraid, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east and gather you from the west.
- Young's Literal Translation - Be not afraid, for I [am] with thee, From the east I bring in thy seed, And from the west I gather thee.
- Holman Christian Standard Bible - Do not fear, for I am with you; I will bring your descendants from the east, and gather you from the west.
- New American Standard Bible - "Do not fear, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east, And gather you from the west.
- King James Bible - Fear not: for I [am] with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;
[Job Bautista]
Through deeper examination of the verse, we will notice that Prophet Isaiah explicitly says “east” (v.5) and “fron afar” (v.6). Now since the ones being prophesized as coming from the “east” (v.5) are the very ones referred as “from afar” (v.6).
The word afar off is not in the verse that you're quoting and not even in the rest of the versions that I collected for you. Looks like you're including it just because it is part of your doctrine. There are a couple of similar words "Afar off" or "From Afar" that don't say something about the Philippines or rather some distant land.
[Job Bautista]
Then it is clear that the ones being prophesized are “from afar” in the “east” or Far East.
Clear? No, I'm not a Bigot. But perhaps you can keep that since it is your doctrine. To accept it as the prophecy of the Philippines and the rise of the Iglesia Ni Christo is so absurd and I couldn't think of anything to link that prophecy about Felix and the INC church. Nothing at all.
[Job Bautista]
Iglesia Ni Cristo is firmly believing that James Moffat’s rendition is correct by substantiated by the fact that in original Hebrew, the word he translated as “far east” is mizrach (Isa. 43:5-6 Hebrew-English Tanakh by Jewish Publicationsl Society).
Yeah sure, it's your doctrine. Why would someone who seeks the truth that knows the bible would agree with that? This is simply absurd and you could not support your theology, if James Moffat's translation is correct then consider the rest of that version true, rather picking up only a part of it and proclaim it was the right verse to be true. That's not even comparing "Spiritual Things to Spiritual things" in Parallel Study. So, who would agree? NONE!
[Job Bautista]
Concerning the Hebrew term, “mizrach”, William Smith’s Dictionary of the Bible has this to say :
“EAST. THE HEBREW TERM KEDEM proper means which is before or in front of a person, and was applied to the east from the custom of turning in that direction when describing the points of the compass, before, behind, the right and left representing respectively east, west, north and south (Job 23:8, 9). The term generally used refers to the land lying immediately eastward of Palestine, Arabia, Mesopotamia and Babylonia. On the other hand, MIZRACH is USED OF THE FAR EAST with a less-definite signification (Isa. 43:5, Isa. 46:11).” [p. 154]
And do you think William Smith agrees that it is the Philippines that he meant or just simply a far country of the Promise land?
Some known Scholars disagree the INC Ideology |
[Job Bautista]
Here is the testimony of a reknown Bible scholar that “mizrach” is the Hebrew term used in Isaiah 43:5, and that this term is the equivalent in english of “far east”.
"Mizrach" (miz·rāḥ) Simply means East as to the direction of the Sunrise, you just added the Far East because of Moffat Translation, but there is no specific location if you are to take that translation literal as to where it faces. Here you're already debunking a couple of times in our discussions and still, you can't accept it just as accepting the scriptures word in your Lamsa Translation.
[Job Bautista]
That is the place where the Church of Christ or the Iglesia ni Cristo re-emerge from the Far East , the other sheep of Jesus John 10:16, Acts 2:39 , Acts 20:28 lamsa .
The other sheep is not a gentile nation and here you are still using it. Again, try to understand Christ words where he said to his disciples -
Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
How many times will I remind you for that and here you are trying to inject your doctrine of man. See my Post for Neil Andi Anderson at https://truth-reflects.blogspot.com/2021/09/part-1-neil-andi-anderson-responding.html?m=1 and answer the question for him since he can't keep up answering it.
And here you are Pointing South East. So, how was it fulfilled? |