Church of Christ: I have before me a Book of Mormon in which there are two contradictions that cannot be explained. We read that in 147 B.C. as recorded in Mosiah 16:17 that, "they were called the Church of God, or the Church of Christ, from that time forward, And it came to pass that whosoever was baptized by the power and authority of God was added to His church." Yet we read in Matt. 16:18 that Christ told Peter, "Upon this rock I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH." This is future tense so was the Church first organized in 147 BC, like “The Book of Mormon” says, or afterA.D.33 like the Bible says. We then read in Alma 46:11-15 that in B.C. 73 the people in your book were called "Christians" yet we read in Acts 11:26 that the people were called Christians "FIRST" at Antioch in approximately 45 A.D. How were they called Christians "first" in Antioch in 45 A.D. like the Bible says?
Missionaries: We covered this previously but you didn’t understand it then either. I don't think you have an understanding of the two records yet. I guess we will have to take time and draw you a picture. Archeologists tell us that definitely during the time of Christ people lived upon this the American Continent. (The American Before Columbus, Farnsworth Publishing Company; The History of Ancient America, by George Jones, produced by Harper and Brothers; Ancient Cities of the New World, produced by J. Gonino and Helen S. Conant, published by Harper and Brothers; History of America Before Columbus, by Peter DeRoo, produced by J. B. Lippincott Company of Philadelphia, and many more). Now that we have this fact definitely established, we can continue; we will establish that the writers on the Eastern Continent, where the Bible was written, had no understanding that there was another race of people upon this the American Continent. We read in Acts 2:5 that on the day of Pentecost, "there were dwelling at Jerusalem, Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven." We know that there were none of their representatives on this continent at that time or it would have been recorded. Paul wrote in Col. 1:23, "If ye continue in the faith, grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hopes of the Gospel, which ye have heard and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I, Paul, am made a minister." Eph. 3:8 informs us that Paul was sent to "preach among the gentiles", and yet we have no record of his visit to them or to the people on this continent in any of his writings so we know that he wrote of the world which he knew which would not have been the new world in John 10:14-16 when the Lord said, "Other sheep I have which are not of this fold, them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold and one shepherd." It could not have been the gentiles when H referred to the "other sheep", because Christ said in Matt. 15:20, "I am not sent, but to the lost sheep of the House of Israel." and also in Matt. 12:21, when he said "And in His name shall the gentiles trust." (also see Isa. 43:7)
Church of Christ: That was during His lifetime He referred to, but after His resurrection He told the disciples, "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you; and ye shall 58 be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth." (Acts 1:8) Therefore, He was sent to the gentiles and they were the lost sheep.
Missionaries: But there is no record of this, only the command. You will notice in John 10:16 that the sheep Christ was referring to "would hear His voice" and the gentiles never heard His voice. Incidentally, Acts 1:8 also verified that the "uttermost part of the earth" that they were familiar with, was only their own continent, and they fulfilled that command of Christ. Caiaphas, prophesying of Christ's future mission, said, concerning John 10:16, "Consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not, AND NOT FOR THAT NATION ONLY, but that also He could gather together in one the children of God, that were scattered abroad." (John 11:50-52) Now you can see as we have pointed out that there were other sheep, they lived on another continent, and the apostles did not have accessible means to preach the word of God on the other side of the ocean. Therefore, they had their own prophets, because God, being just, would reveal His word to all righteous people, and especially entire nations. Their prophets had great revelations, and prophecies of greater events concerning the birth of Christ, because He was to live among another people. Therefore, they knew His name would be Jesus Christ so they took upon themselves the name of “Christians”. When Luke wrote that they were called Christians "first" at Antioch, that was according to his knowledge, because he had said earlier that Christ had told the disciples they would preach "to the utter most parts of the earth", and on Pentecost people were "gathered out of every nation under heaven," so therefore Luke's understanding that they were called Christians first in Antioch. That was the first time on the Old Continent that the people of that hemisphere were called by the name but such was not the case upon this continent, as we have demonstrated and pointed out previously. The people on the American Continent, being a more righteous nation, learned many years before the Savior's birth that His name would be Jesus Christ. Therefore 147 years before His birth, they named the Church after him. They remained under the old law until His appearance to them in 34 A.D. When He appeared to them and taught them His principals they did away with the Law of Moses and accepted His teachings. He chose 12 apostles on this continent and did many wonderful things before these people. Therefore, we have pointed out that it was not a contradiction, but just a lack of knowledge due to communications which prevented the writers of the New Testament books to know of the events that were transpiring on this continent. If you say that they did know of these people, then that leaves you to explain when the apostles went over and taught them the gospel, (Acts 1:8; Col. 1:23), or how they made it over for the day of Pentecost. (Acts 2:5)
In Defense of Truth: 53
Church of Christ: I have before me a Book of Mormon in which there are two contradictions that cannot be explained. We read that in 147 B.C. as recorded in Mosiah 16:17 that, "they were called the Church of God, or the Church of Christ, from that time forward, And it came to pass that whosoever was baptized by the power and authority of God was added to His church." Yet we read in Matt. 16:18 that Christ told Peter, "Upon this rock I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH." This is future tense so was the Church first organized in 147 BC, like “The Book of Mormon” says, or afterA.D.33 like the Bible says. We then read in Alma 46:11-15 that in B.C. 73 the people in your book were called "Christians" yet we read in Acts 11:26 that the people were called Christians "FIRST" at Antioch in approximately 45 A.D. How were they called Christians "first" in Antioch in 45 A.D. like the Bible says?
Missionaries: We covered this previously but you didn’t understand it then either. I don't think you have an understanding of the two records yet. I guess we will have to take time and draw you a picture. Archeologists tell us that definitely during the time of Christ people lived upon this the American Continent. (The American Before Columbus, Farnsworth Publishing Company; The History of Ancient America, by George Jones, produced by Harper and Brothers; Ancient Cities of the New World, produced by J. Gonino and Helen S. Conant, published by Harper and Brothers; History of America Before Columbus, by Peter DeRoo, produced by J. B. Lippincott Company of Philadelphia, and many more). Now that we have this fact definitely established, we can continue; we will establish that the writers on the Eastern Continent, where the Bible was written, had no understanding that there was another race of people upon this the American Continent. We read in Acts 2:5 that on the day of Pentecost, "there were dwelling at Jerusalem, Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven." We know that there were none of their representatives on this continent at that time or it would have been recorded. Paul wrote in Col. 1:23, "If ye continue in the faith, grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hopes of the Gospel, which ye have heard and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I, Paul, am made a minister." Eph. 3:8 informs us that Paul was sent to "preach among the gentiles", and yet we have no record of his visit to them or to the people on this continent in any of his writings so we know that he wrote of the world which he knew which would not have been the new world in John 10:14-16 when the Lord said, "Other sheep I have which are not of this fold, them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold and one shepherd." It could not have been the gentiles when H referred to the "other sheep", because Christ said in Matt. 15:20, "I am not sent, but to the lost sheep of the House of Israel." and also in Matt. 12:21, when he said "And in His name shall the gentiles trust." (also see Isa. 43:7)
Church of Christ: That was during His lifetime He referred to, but after His resurrection He told the disciples, "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you; and ye shall 58 be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth." (Acts 1:8) Therefore, He was sent to the gentiles and they were the lost sheep.
Missionaries: But there is no record of this, only the command. You will notice in John 10:16 that the sheep Christ was referring to "would hear His voice" and the gentiles never heard His voice. Incidentally, Acts 1:8 also verified that the "uttermost part of the earth" that they were familiar with, was only their own continent, and they fulfilled that command of Christ. Caiaphas, prophesying of Christ's future mission, said, concerning John 10:16, "Consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not, AND NOT FOR THAT NATION ONLY, but that also He could gather together in one the children of God, that were scattered abroad." (John 11:50-52) Now you can see as we have pointed out that there were other sheep, they lived on another continent, and the apostles did not have accessible means to preach the word of God on the other side of the ocean. Therefore, they had their own prophets, because God, being just, would reveal His word to all righteous people, and especially entire nations. Their prophets had great revelations, and prophecies of greater events concerning the birth of Christ, because He was to live among another people. Therefore, they knew His name would be Jesus Christ so they took upon themselves the name of “Christians”. When Luke wrote that they were called Christians "first" at Antioch, that was according to his knowledge, because he had said earlier that Christ had told the disciples they would preach "to the utter most parts of the earth", and on Pentecost people were "gathered out of every nation under heaven," so therefore Luke's understanding that they were called Christians first in Antioch. That was the first time on the Old Continent that the people of that hemisphere were called by the name but such was not the case upon this continent, as we have demonstrated and pointed out previously. The people on the American Continent, being a more righteous nation, learned many years before the Savior's birth that His name would be Jesus Christ. Therefore 147 years before His birth, they named the Church after him. They remained under the old law until His appearance to them in 34 A.D. When He appeared to them and taught them His principals they did away with the Law of Moses and accepted His teachings. He chose 12 apostles on this continent and did many wonderful things before these people. Therefore, we have pointed out that it was not a contradiction, but just a lack of knowledge due to communications which prevented the writers of the New Testament books to know of the events that were transpiring on this continent. If you say that they did know of these people, then that leaves you to explain when the apostles went over and taught them the gospel, (Acts 1:8; Col. 1:23), or how they made it over for the day of Pentecost. (Acts 2:5)
Missionaries: We covered this previously but you didn’t understand it then either. I don't think you have an understanding of the two records yet. I guess we will have to take time and draw you a picture. Archeologists tell us that definitely during the time of Christ people lived upon this the American Continent. (The American Before Columbus, Farnsworth Publishing Company; The History of Ancient America, by George Jones, produced by Harper and Brothers; Ancient Cities of the New World, produced by J. Gonino and Helen S. Conant, published by Harper and Brothers; History of America Before Columbus, by Peter DeRoo, produced by J. B. Lippincott Company of Philadelphia, and many more). Now that we have this fact definitely established, we can continue; we will establish that the writers on the Eastern Continent, where the Bible was written, had no understanding that there was another race of people upon this the American Continent. We read in Acts 2:5 that on the day of Pentecost, "there were dwelling at Jerusalem, Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven." We know that there were none of their representatives on this continent at that time or it would have been recorded. Paul wrote in Col. 1:23, "If ye continue in the faith, grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hopes of the Gospel, which ye have heard and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I, Paul, am made a minister." Eph. 3:8 informs us that Paul was sent to "preach among the gentiles", and yet we have no record of his visit to them or to the people on this continent in any of his writings so we know that he wrote of the world which he knew which would not have been the new world in John 10:14-16 when the Lord said, "Other sheep I have which are not of this fold, them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold and one shepherd." It could not have been the gentiles when H referred to the "other sheep", because Christ said in Matt. 15:20, "I am not sent, but to the lost sheep of the House of Israel." and also in Matt. 12:21, when he said "And in His name shall the gentiles trust." (also see Isa. 43:7)
Church of Christ: That was during His lifetime He referred to, but after His resurrection He told the disciples, "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you; and ye shall 58 be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth." (Acts 1:8) Therefore, He was sent to the gentiles and they were the lost sheep.
Missionaries: But there is no record of this, only the command. You will notice in John 10:16 that the sheep Christ was referring to "would hear His voice" and the gentiles never heard His voice. Incidentally, Acts 1:8 also verified that the "uttermost part of the earth" that they were familiar with, was only their own continent, and they fulfilled that command of Christ. Caiaphas, prophesying of Christ's future mission, said, concerning John 10:16, "Consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not, AND NOT FOR THAT NATION ONLY, but that also He could gather together in one the children of God, that were scattered abroad." (John 11:50-52) Now you can see as we have pointed out that there were other sheep, they lived on another continent, and the apostles did not have accessible means to preach the word of God on the other side of the ocean. Therefore, they had their own prophets, because God, being just, would reveal His word to all righteous people, and especially entire nations. Their prophets had great revelations, and prophecies of greater events concerning the birth of Christ, because He was to live among another people. Therefore, they knew His name would be Jesus Christ so they took upon themselves the name of “Christians”. When Luke wrote that they were called Christians "first" at Antioch, that was according to his knowledge, because he had said earlier that Christ had told the disciples they would preach "to the utter most parts of the earth", and on Pentecost people were "gathered out of every nation under heaven," so therefore Luke's understanding that they were called Christians first in Antioch. That was the first time on the Old Continent that the people of that hemisphere were called by the name but such was not the case upon this continent, as we have demonstrated and pointed out previously. The people on the American Continent, being a more righteous nation, learned many years before the Savior's birth that His name would be Jesus Christ. Therefore 147 years before His birth, they named the Church after him. They remained under the old law until His appearance to them in 34 A.D. When He appeared to them and taught them His principals they did away with the Law of Moses and accepted His teachings. He chose 12 apostles on this continent and did many wonderful things before these people. Therefore, we have pointed out that it was not a contradiction, but just a lack of knowledge due to communications which prevented the writers of the New Testament books to know of the events that were transpiring on this continent. If you say that they did know of these people, then that leaves you to explain when the apostles went over and taught them the gospel, (Acts 1:8; Col. 1:23), or how they made it over for the day of Pentecost. (Acts 2:5)
Jasher in Cebu
 |
| Jasher wanted to Ride. |
 |
| Beside the Flintstones Character |
 |
| A Closer Look |
 |
| Captain Marvel is now showing |
 |
| This Cat is an Alien |
 |
| The boy wanted to play, but Jasher is busy for photos |
 |
| Jasher with Optimus Prime |
 |
| Jasher with Bumble Bee |
 |
| With Bumble Bee in a Closer look |
 |
| Riding A Horse |
 |
| I want some Ice cream, Papa. |
 |
| Why are they so Busy? |
 |
| Still in Ice Cream. |
 |
| Wanted to try shooting a ball |
 |
| Some Slum dunk |
 |
| I'm Playing Papa. |
 |
| I thought only Jasher is Busy playing. |
 |
| Jasher, Stop. You might broke it. |
 |
| Why are they so busy? |
 |
| Oh, I see. This is the price. |
 |
| A Closer look |
 |
| Just need to have Time, Money and Playing Mode to get it. |
 |
| Here's your reward. |
 |
| Lots of Lego. |
Jasher in Cebu
|
| Jasher wanted to Ride. |
|
| Beside the Flintstones Character |
|
| A Closer Look |
|
| Captain Marvel is now showing |
|
| This Cat is an Alien |
|
| The boy wanted to play, but Jasher is busy for photos |
|
| Jasher with Optimus Prime |
|
| Jasher with Bumble Bee |
|
| With Bumble Bee in a Closer look |
|
| Riding A Horse |
|
| I want some Ice cream, Papa. |
|
| Why are they so Busy? |
|
| Still in Ice Cream. |
|
| Wanted to try shooting a ball |
|
| Some Slum dunk |
|
| I'm Playing Papa. |
|
| I thought only Jasher is Busy playing. |
|
| Jasher, Stop. You might broke it. |
|
| Why are they so busy? |
|
| Oh, I see. This is the price. |
|
| A Closer look |
|
| Just need to have Time, Money and Playing Mode to get it. |
|
| Here's your reward. |
|
| Lots of Lego. |
In Defense of Truth: 52
Salvation Army: Christ did not ever teach that doctrine. When they brought sinners before Him, He would either forgive them (the thief on the cross) or send them on their way with the command to repent, (as the lady caught in adultery). I still disagree that it's a doctrine that was never taught by the Savior.
Missionaries: How do you challenge that which I just read unless you challenge what the Lord said? The challenge was to support it by scripture and this I have done. The real problem is not blood atonement, but whether Joseph Smith was a prophet. If he was, as we have proven here today, then it was a doctrine of the Lord. I have proven from the scriptures that God commanded it, that it was practiced and taught, and where Paul made reference to it. He (Christ) may have forgiven, but still we have the words ringing through the air that "THEY WHICH DO SUCH THINGS SHALL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD." (Gal. 5:l9-2l) Each individual has his different circumstances for committing sin, and if anything even in your distorted look of this doctrine, a request for personal atonement for a grievous sin would be an act of humble repentance and a request of mercy from our Redeemer. An adulterous person is not only a morally wicked person in body, but in spirit, is a liar, and a sign seeker. The doctrine was taught by prophets of God, and we have supported them from the scriptures. Concerning the people which crucified the Lord, it was Christ, himself, who said, "Father, forgive them (the Romans) for they know not what they do." (Luke 23:34) As Paul said in Romans, "Where there is no law, there is no transgression." Paul wrote to Timothy and said, "I was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious; but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief." (1 Tim. 1:13) Therefore, there is a great difference between killing with a vast knowledge and spiritual conviction of the truth, and killing in complete ignorance and lack of spiritual conviction of the Holy Spirit. We believe that a person who kills another outside the church will still be punished because God will judge "each man according to his works", but he could be forgiven by sincere and humble repentance and coming forth under this new light with a broken heart and contrite spirit. There is a similar section dealing with adultery in Section 42. If you should ask this question in relation to its forgiveness, once again it is dealing with members of the church while Bible references were dealing with outsiders.
Missionaries: How do you challenge that which I just read unless you challenge what the Lord said? The challenge was to support it by scripture and this I have done. The real problem is not blood atonement, but whether Joseph Smith was a prophet. If he was, as we have proven here today, then it was a doctrine of the Lord. I have proven from the scriptures that God commanded it, that it was practiced and taught, and where Paul made reference to it. He (Christ) may have forgiven, but still we have the words ringing through the air that "THEY WHICH DO SUCH THINGS SHALL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD." (Gal. 5:l9-2l) Each individual has his different circumstances for committing sin, and if anything even in your distorted look of this doctrine, a request for personal atonement for a grievous sin would be an act of humble repentance and a request of mercy from our Redeemer. An adulterous person is not only a morally wicked person in body, but in spirit, is a liar, and a sign seeker. The doctrine was taught by prophets of God, and we have supported them from the scriptures. Concerning the people which crucified the Lord, it was Christ, himself, who said, "Father, forgive them (the Romans) for they know not what they do." (Luke 23:34) As Paul said in Romans, "Where there is no law, there is no transgression." Paul wrote to Timothy and said, "I was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious; but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief." (1 Tim. 1:13) Therefore, there is a great difference between killing with a vast knowledge and spiritual conviction of the truth, and killing in complete ignorance and lack of spiritual conviction of the Holy Spirit. We believe that a person who kills another outside the church will still be punished because God will judge "each man according to his works", but he could be forgiven by sincere and humble repentance and coming forth under this new light with a broken heart and contrite spirit. There is a similar section dealing with adultery in Section 42. If you should ask this question in relation to its forgiveness, once again it is dealing with members of the church while Bible references were dealing with outsiders.
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