So here we go. First he made this long post addressing me and Glen Mari Lamis on our comments about his understanding of Christ Divinity and Nature thinking his post couldn't be answered.
Attention:Jerry NuΓ±ez BustilloGlen Mari R. Lamis
π Jer you comment moment ago ~ Jose Magadia ok so you don't worship Christ as a God but you worship him as a Man right?... Jesus Name? So how are you gonna explain that?
π Glen, again your comment moments ago ~Jose Magadia so, why you worship Jesus if only God should be worshipped?
π Glen your OP dated 10 April ~ If we only worship God and NOT man why worship Jesus Christ who is a man NOT GOD?
π Glen your argument on my OP dated 17 April ~ Why not worship John the Baptist, Moses, Abraham, Peter, Paul, etc for the glory of the Father?
Actually, I don't know about the rest of their discussion with Glen, but since he was on the LDS side and to be fair, I'll just include it for him to know that I'm not Biased. This is just a funny part were he collected most of his hated comments that he seems so affected to it.
So below was his response and possibly some of his excuses. But let's get to it then -
ANSWER:Foremost, we the Iglesia Ni Cristo, don't acknowledge Christ as God when we worship Him, simply because it is the TEACHING of Christ Himself that "YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD".
10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD, and π SERVE HIM ONLY.’
- Matthew 4:10 (New International Version)
O yeah of course, the time during Satan confronted Christ on his preparation for his ministry, I can see that. Okay, So while conversing with satan, what was his current state? Was he, immortal and has a glorified body? So, why don't you consider it?
8 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD and π SERVE HIM ONLY.’”
Luke 4:8 (New International Version)
And here's another one from the Gospel of Luke on the same context and background. So what's the point of posting the same biblical background?
... but then you reason out... being the Son of God, Jesus should naturally inherit the Godness of His Heavenly Father the ONLY GOD, is your IMMEDIATE CONCLUSION...
... then why did Jesus speak those Words? Because during that very moment, Satan wanted to deceive Jesus into worshiping him(Satan):
6 And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. 7 IF YOU WORSHIP ME, it will all be yours.”
Luke 4:6-7 (New International Version)
... this is the reason why Jesus CORRECTED what the devil wanted into worshiping him....
That's how you simply view it without a broad understanding of the New Testament in General. So how's the Christian view about? So here's my simple response -
Was Matthew 4:10 says something about Christ as the Lord God we worship?
Absolutely! Matthew 4:10 is part of a significant interaction between Jesus Christ and Satan during Christ's temptation in the wilderness. In this verse, Jesus says to Satan, "Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." Here, Jesus is quoting Deuteronomy 6:13 and reinforcing the commandment that worship is exclusively devoted to the Lord God.
While Jesus doesn't explicitly refer to Himself as the Lord God in this specific verse, it's a part of the broader New Testament narrative that affirms Jesus Christ's divinity and His role as an object of our worship. By rebuking Satan and emphasizing the worship due only to God, Christ upholds His divine identity and authority, which Latter-day Saint teachings also acknowledge and affirm.
This moment is a powerful testament to the importance of worshiping God and serving Him alone, which is a foundational aspect of Latter-day Saint faith. It reminds us of the central role of Jesus Christ as our Savior and as a divine member of the Godhead whom we worship and follow.
Prior to verse 10, as the context of the scripture says: it was Satan who brought him to view the whole kingdom of this world without knowing that Christ as divine in nature owns it. If you'll ask me how Christ owns the Kingdom of this world? Here let me give you an insights -
Christ's ownership and dominion over all the kingdoms of the world stem from His divine identity and role as the Creator, Savior, and Redeemer. According to Latter-day Saint understanding, Jesus Christ, as the Son of God, played a pivotal role in the creation of the world under the direction of God the Father. This foundational belief is echoed in scriptures found in both the Bible and Latter-day Saint scripture.
In the New Testament, John acknowledges Christ's role in creation, stating, “All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made” (John 1:3). This verse establishes Christ not only as the creator but as an integral authority over the creation.
Moreover, Latter-day Saint doctrine emphasizes that through His Atonement, Jesus Christ overcame physical death and spiritual separation from God, thereby exerting His power and authority to save and redeem all humanity. This act of sacrifice and redemption further solidifies His right to reign over all the kingdoms of the world, as He has bought them with a price, His own blood (see Acts 20:28).
In the Doctrine and Covenants, a volume of Latter-day Saint scripture, it is declared that Christ will ultimately reign on the earth, signifying His dominion and ownership over all the kingdoms of the world: "And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one" (Doctrine and Covenants 133:25, referencing Zechariah 14:9).
These scriptures illustrate the foundational beliefs that Christ's dominion and ownership over the kingdoms of this world are derived from His divine creation, His atoning sacrifice, and His eventual millennial reign.
Question: WHOM Jesus is referring to - to worship the Lord "YOUR" God? Is this the one they thought was Jesus as the Son of God?
Answer: RESOUNDING NO!
... As Jesus said:
17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to MY FATHER AND YOUR FATHER, TO MY GOD AND YOUR GOD.’”
John 20:17 (New International Version)
Using this scripture will fail you to understand Christ Nature if you try to stick to just one angle and the rest of the Context is empty.
Confused? Let me give you another insights.
... in these scenario, Jesus is telling that the God of HIS DISCIPLES, is also HIS GOD, who is none other than the FATHER.
... that the word "YOUR" as PRONOUN do not refer to Himself (Jesus) but directed to the FATHER...
... so, clearly now, as the premise guides us, we SHOULD ONLY WORSHIP the FATHER and ALSO GUIDES US THAT JESUS SHOULD NOT BE WORSHIPED as Jesus himself quips...
THEN WHY WE, THE IGLESIA NI CRISTO WORSHIP JESUS?
... Let's again analyze carefully why we worship Jesus, as Jesus himself clearly proclaimed that THE FATHER IS THE ONE THAT SHOULD BE WORSHIPED AS GOD but π IT IS ALSO NOTABLY THAT GOD HIMSELF WHO COMMANDED US ALL (the CHOSEN FEW) TO KNEEL HEAD BOW TO HIS SON, JESUS:
9 Therefore God EXALTED HIM to the highest place and GAVE HIM THE NAME THAT IS ABOVE EVERY NAME,
10 that at the NAME OF JESUS EVERY KNEE SHOULD BOW, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue ACKNOWLEDGE THAT JESUS CHRIST IS LORD, TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER.
Philippians 2:9-11 (New International Version)
Question: Was Jesus worshiped because He is HUMAN?
Answer: RESOUNDING NO, Jesus is worshiped because of the following statement from God himself:
◾Because of the NAME GIVEN to Him by GOD is ABOVE ALL NAMES.
◾Because of the NAME of JESUS, ALL CREATURES must PRAISE AND WORSHIP Him.
◾Above all, it is the COMMAND of God to worship his Son, Jesus Christ for His GLORY(Philippians 2:11).
... It is the SUPERIOR NAME that Jesus Inherited...
This has already answered on my above statement and clearly you're just selecting only the part where you can justify on that same epistle which Paul said to the Philippians saints. Your cherry-picked ideology doesn't work on that and clearly you don't understand the scripture the way you explain your doctrine.
4 So he became as much superior to the angels as THE NAME HE HAS INHERITED IS SUPERIOR to theirs.
Hebrews 1:4 (New International Version)
πππ... Even the Angels of God WORSHIP Jesus because of the π NAME given to Him:
6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “LET ALL GOD’S ANGELS WORSHIP HIM.”
Hebrews 1:6 (New International Version)
... Clearly now, the TRUTH that Jesus is WORSHIPED because of the NAME given to Him by God who EXALTED Him(Philippians 2:9). The NAME owned by God, the NAME of God HIMSELF was given to Him(Jesus) the NAME ABOVE ALL NAME...
11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. HOLY FATHER, PROTECT THEM BY THE POWER OF YOUR NAME, THE NAME YOU GAVE ME, so that they may be one as we are one.
John 17:11 (New International Version)
... πThe Inherited NAME of the FATHER THAT IS WORSHIPED, the NAME GIVEN to Jesus that must WORSHIPED BY ALL CREATURES....
John 17:11 is a part of Jesus's prayer to His Father during the last hours before His crucifixion. This prayer is often called the High Priestly Prayer, where Jesus prays for His disciples and all future believers. In this prayer, He seeks to share His heart and concerns with the Father, focusing particularly on the unity, protection, and sanctification of His followers.
Here's a bit of context and what John 17:11 is about:
John 17:11 (NIV): "I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one."
In this verse, Jesus acknowledges that His time on earth is coming to an end. He is about to leave the world and go to the Father. However, He shows His deep concern for His disciples who are remaining in the world. Jesus asks the Father to protect them in a unique way: "by the power of your name, the name you gave me." This is significant because, in Jewish thought, a name wasn't just an identifier but was believed to carry the essence and power of the person or thing it described. So, when Jesus speaks of being protected by the name the Father has given Him, it implies protection by the very power and authority of God.
The purpose of this protection is unity: "so that they may be one as we are one." Jesus prays for His disciples to experience the same type of unity that He shares with the Father—a perfect, intimate relationship characterized by love, mutual understanding, and purpose. This unity is not just a spiritual ideal but a tangible expression of the divine relationship within the Godhead. It has profound implications for how believers relate to one another, serve together, and witness to the world.
Jesus's prayer in John 17 emphasizes His love and concern for His followers, His desire for their protection from the evil one (as elaborated in subsequent verses), and His hope for their unity and sanctification. It provides a beautiful model of intercessory prayer and a glimpse into the heart of Jesus for His church. To sum up everything, the name that you tried to explain was simply the power and authority of Christ has from the Father according to that context.
2 He said to them, “When you pray, say: “‘Father, HALLOWED BE YOUR NAME, your kingdom come.
Luke 11:2 (New International Version)
... π the teachings of the bible is clear. Jesus is NOT WORSHIPED by the Iglesia Ni Cristo as God, BUT BECAUSE IT IS THE COMMAND of God, to worship the NAME of Jesus "CHRIST" that was GIVEN to Him for the Glory of God...
You simple tried so hard to mixed up a different context to twist the scriptural teachings of Christ divinity. Luke 11:2 has nothing to do about anything on this topic but rather it's Christ humble prayer to the Father as the God of all Spirit in which everyone should worship the same Father as Christ did.
Luke 11:2 is part of a beautiful section where Jesus teaches His disciples how to pray, responding to one of them who said, "Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples." This moment leads to Jesus presenting what we often call the Lord's Prayer.
In this verse, Jesus begins the prayer with, "When you pray, say: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth." This introduction sets the tone for a prayer that emphasizes the reverence of God's name, the anticipation of His kingdom, and the submission to His will, both in heaven and on earth.
The context here tells us a lot about the importance Jesus places on prayer: it's not just about asking for things, but about acknowledging God's holiness, desiring His reign and rule, and aligning our wills with His divine purposes.
HOW IMPORTANT IS THE NAME GIVEN TO JESUS?
12 SALVATION IS FOUND IN NO ONE ELSE, FOR THERE IS NO OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN GIVEN TO MANKIND BY WHICH WE MUST BE SAVED.”
10 then know this, you and all the people of Israel: IT IS BY THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed.
Acts 4:12, 10 (New International Version)
Now this is how you misunderstood context, but perhaps we can make a good explanation on this one. Remember what I said a while ago about Christ Name as his Power and authority. And during this certain chapter in The Acts of the Apostle, Peter and John were examined by the Jewish Pharisees here's the context.
In Acts 4:5-11, we find a powerful example of the early disciples’ courage and the impact of Jesus Christ’s teachings and resurrection. This passage occurs right after Peter and John heal a man lame from birth at the gate of the temple called Beautiful, which draws considerable attention and leads to a large number of people believing in Jesus Christ (over 5,000, as noted in Acts 4:4).
Peter and John are brought before the Jewish council—the Sanhedrin, which includes rulers, elders, scribes, and notable figures like Annas the high priest, Caiaphas, John, and Alexander. These are the same authorities who played a significant role in the trial and crucifixion of Jesus. The key question they ask Peter and John is by what power or name did they perform the healing.
Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, boldly proclaims that the healing of the lame man was done in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom they had crucified but God raised from the dead. Peter’s declaration is not only a fearless testimony of Jesus’s power and divinity but also an indictment of the leaders’ actions against Jesus. He further emphasizes that there is "no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." This moment illustrates the apostles' unwavering commitment to preaching the Gospel, regardless of the opposition, and the fulfillment of Jesus’s promise that the Holy Spirit would give them the words to say when on trial.
This scene is a key moment in the early church, demonstrating the power of Jesus's name in performing miracles and the boldness the Holy Spirit provides to witness Christ before any audience.
Now, link that on my simple explanation about Christ Authority and Power.
... JESUS was the PROMISED Messiah Matthew 16:13-17/ John 4:25-26...
...The NAME "JESUS" in Christ is so important because it is the SAVIOR of God's people. Worship of Jesus is not the same of worship as God, BUT AS WHAT WE ARE COMMANDED BY GOD FOR US OBEY, and that is a clear GOD'S WILL, that all creatures should PRAISE Him for HIS(God's) GLORY. Thus, the TRUE WORSHIP of God are those who OBEY HIS WILL...
This explanation of yours is simply heresy, why would you keep insisting Christ a mere man where you had already debunked by your own selected verses. Those verse clearly suggests Christ divinity and nature. Do you even know what's John 4 was all about?
John 4:25-26 is a beautiful and critical junction in a conversation between Jesus and a woman from Samaria at Jacob's well. This event is packed with deep doctrinal significance and showcases Jesus' loving outreach to all, including those considered outsiders or less favored by society. Here's a bit of context for you π:
Location & Meeting: Jesus, traveling from Judea to Galilee, stops in Samaria at Jacob's well. It was unusual for Jews to travel through Samaria or engage with Samaritans due to long-standing religious and social tensions. Yet, Jesus initiates a conversation with a Samaritan woman who comes to draw water.
Conversation Themes: Their dialogue initially revolves around physical water, but Jesus shifts the topic to offer "living water" — eternal life and salvation. The woman is intrigued but doesn't fully understand.
Spiritual Insight and Revelation: When the conversation turns to worship and where one should worship, the woman speaks of the Messiah (Christ) and her expectation of His coming. This is when Jesus directly reveals Himself to her in verses 25-26:
The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.” Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”
In these verses, Jesus plainly declares He is the Messiah. This direct disclosure is significant, especially considering the cultural and religious barriers of the time. Jesus' declaration to a Samaritan woman, rather than to Jewish religious leaders, underscores His message that salvation and eternal life are available to all, irrespective of nationality, social status, or past.
This interaction also highlights the theme of true worshipers worshiping the Father in spirit and truth, transcending physical locations like Jerusalem or Mount Gerizim, where Samaritans worshiped.
Jesus’ encounter with the Samaritan woman is a powerful testament to His role as the living water and the Savior of the world, reaching out to individuals on a deeply personal level.
31 We know that God does not listen to sinners. HE LISTENS TO THE GODLY PERSON WHO DOES HIS WILL.
John 9:31 - New International Version)
...So this is the true worshiper, THE ONE WHO OBEYS THE WILL OF GOD which is written deep within our hearts and mind...
8 I desire to do your will, my God; your law is within my heart.”
Psalm 40:8 (New International Version)
Some redundancy of the same subject as above. So I don't see something that needs explanations. You like long words that you think impressive and convincing. If you want to discuss something on me next time, please lessen your words, be straight and direct.
Glen, your argument here ⤵️.
π Worship only God yet worship Christ who is not God, so why not also worship the prophets, apostles and the angels?
- Where in the bible that Jesus mentioned in his gospel that... I am god and worship me? NONE...
- Who among his apostles and followers worship Jesus during his ministry? NONE...
- What verse that Jesus preach to worship his apostles? NONE
AGAIN, when Jesus is WORSHIPPED, the CREDIT ULTIMATELY GOES BACK to God the Heavenly Father.
10 THAT AT THE NAME OF JESUS EVERY KNEE SHOULD BOW, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, π TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER.
Philippians 2:10-11 (New International Version)
Again, this has been explained clearly, if you dislike the scripture about the subject, then you have a problem. My advice to you Jose Magadia, is to study the scriptural context instead of cherry-picking just parts to satisfy your INC doctrine that doesn't sound biblical. You're excusing every scripture that proves it and simply contradicting on your own understanding. Stop doing that, it won't help you know the true nature of Jesus Christ as the Son of God.
CLOSING REMARK:
This is the truth upheld by the Iglesia Ni Cristo that the Lord Jesus Christ is a Man and not God which is hidden secret to many. In fact, this is one of the Church’s doctrines frequently questioned by different christian denomination of today for it does not only differs and runs counter to their beliefs — that Christ is God which is a clear FALSE DOCTRINE but the correct understanding on the divine nature of Lord Jesus Christ.
It is noticeable that the Holy Bible itself presents many evidences that Christ is not God to be worship but the NAME "JESUS CHRIST " OWNED BY GOD, is to be WORSHIP as explained thoroughly by this comment.
What in the worlds was this all about? "The Name Jesus Christ owned by God" is to be worshiped? Which mean if God would take that name and give it someone else then this will void the real Jesus atone all of the sins? Why in the world you'd accept that Kind of Doctrine?
BE ENLIGHTEN...
PEACE...
We invite you all to attend our worship services near you.
VISIT:
www.Iglesianicristo.net
incmedia.org, the official websites of the lglesia ni Cristo
Yes, yes of course And we also invite you to come and join the real teachings of Jesus Christ that will perhaps enlightened your understanding about Christ true nature, the importance of atonement, the restoration of the Gospel, the plan of salvation, Revelations and Priesthood Authority. It might bring you to the real light and understanding of Gospel of Jesus Christ as the Son of God, and be perfected in Him.
PS:
Proverbs 1:5 (English Standard Version)
5 Let the wise hear and increase in learning, and the one who understands obtain guidance,
Ephesians 3:9 (English Standard Version)
9 and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God, who created all things,
Doxology
I don't know why he added doxology in a conversations. We're not singing Jose Magadia. What this has to do on you Post?
Romans 16:25 (English Standard Version)
25 Now to him who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that was kept secret for long ages.
Colossians 1:26 (English Standard Version)
26 the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now revealed to his saints.
1 Corinthians 2:10 (English Standard Version)
10 these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.
I don't know exactly why it's here in this topic. And it seems there's nothing to discuss on it. So it's not necessary to add a commentary that has nothing to do with the issue. So let's just move ahead and end it.
FEED YOUR MIND...
Feed my what? I got bored actually in this long post that has a zero understanding on biblical eisegesis and exegesis. How in the world would I feed my mind on that?
PS: Jerry NuΓ±ez Bustillo, please don't block my responses to your comments.
FYI: I never block anyone in responding my post or commenting on it. You'll know you'd been blocked if you can't see me or you can't message me directly in whatever platform. You're over reacting.
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