Nature of Christ: Responding Emmanuel Dela Cruz

Some random Challenge of an INC member seems to call my attention. It's not a post but a formal Written Debate between LDS and INC and in this side comments he made a challenge on some Scripture that was used against them that they always twist for no good reason. Here is the text and let's try responding to some of it. 

Calling the attention of all members of Jesus christ latter day saint

Yung mga mahihilig gumamit ng mga maling salin sa Hebrew 1:8 at filipos 2:6-8 usap tayo. TINDIGAN NYO MGA MALING PAGKAKAUNAWA NYO.

So here, he opened up some scripture found in Hebrews 1:8 and Philippians 2:6-8. Let's try to see how it said first before we get through his comments -

Hebrews 1:8 (Nestle-Aland 28) πρὸς δὲ τὸν υἱόν·ὁ θρόνος σου ὁ θεὸς εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα τοῦ αἰῶνος, καὶ ἡ ῥάβδος τῆς εὐθύτητος ῥάβδος τῆς βασιλείας σου.

(Transliteration) pros de ton huion; ho thronos sou ho theos eis ton aiōna tou aiōnos, kai hē rhabdos tēs euthytētos rhabdos tēs basileias sou.

(Literal) Unto however the Son the throne of you O God [is] to the age of the age and the scepter of righteousness [is] the scepter of the kingdom of you.

(KJV Paraphrase) But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

And in Philippians 2:6-8 here's the text -

Philippians 2 (Nestle 1904)

6 ὃς ἐν μορφῇ Θεοῦ ὑπάρχων οὐχ ἁρπαγμὸν ἡγήσατο τὸ εἶναι ἴσα Θεῷ, 

7 ἀλλὰ ἑαυτὸν ἐκένωσεν μορφὴν δούλου λαβών, ἐν ὁμοιώματι ἀνθρώπων γενόμενος· καὶ σχήματι εὑρεθεὶς ὡς ἄνθρωπος 

8 ἐταπείνωσεν ἑαυτὸν γενόμενος ὑπήκοος μέχρι θανάτου, θανάτου δὲ σταυροῦ.

(Literal Emphasis Translation)

6 Who, already existing in the form of God, did not suppose (esteem, count) it something to be seized to be equal (greek-isos, latin-aequalem, identical, equivalent) with God,

7 but rather emptied Himself, having taken the form of a bond-slave, having emerged (become, been born) in the same likeness of men.

8 And having been found in outer appearance as a man, He humbled Himself, having become compliant even to death, even the death of the cross.

(Peshitta Holy Bible Translated)

6 He who, while he was in the form of God, did not esteem this as a prize, that he was the equal of God,

7 But he stripped himself and took the form of a Servant and was in the form of the children of men, and was found in fashion as a man.

8 And he humbled himself and was obedient unto death, even the death of being crucified.

Alright, so nothing suspicious, I just don't know why INC people keep twisting it. Well just see how he attempted to discredit Christ in this verse by just simply looking at some contradiction. Let's see how successful he was.

Alamin nga natin kung kailan sinalita ng Dios ng INC yung Hebrew 1:8: Based sa mga faborito nyong salin:

Simulan nga natin noong nasa langit pa ang kaganapan sa Hebrew 1:4-10 sabi ng Dios ayun sa Hebrew 1:4

Ang Anak ay ginawang higit na dakila kay sa mga anghel, tulad ng pangalan na ibinigay sa kanya ng Diyos ay higit na dakila.

Noong unang nahayag sa laman ayun sa 1temoteo 3:16.

He attempted to insert 1 Timothy 3:16 which says clearly about Christ and his Nature and how he successfully fulfilled his mission. But it seems he still has something on the table. Let's move forward to see how it goes -

ano na po bang nangyari? Ganun pa rin ba? kc nga based sa faborito nyong salin hinubad na daw pagkadios ayun sa filipos 2:6-8 . haha.

Seriously? How did you understand Philippians 2:6-8? Let's elaborate on it -

(Peshitta Holy Bible Translated)

6 He who, while he was in the form of God, did not esteem this as a prize, that he was the equal of God,

Christ was in the form of God, he was already there with the Father (as equal God) with the Glory he had before the world was created (John 17:5). But, did not take it in his Earthly Ministry rather (next verses) -

7 But he stripped himself and took the form of a Servant and was in the form of the children of men, and was found in fashion as a man.

He made himself low and took the tabernacle of man or as the seed of Abraham, and experience as a human had experience, to succor how every human suffering such as pain and death, so he can conquer it (Hebrew 2:16-18) -

8 And he humbled himself and was obedient unto death, even the death of being crucified.

And at the end of his atonement, Death is conquered and every soul is free. (1 Corinthians 15:52-58). That's the very reason why Christ took the seed of Abraham that all humans will be free from the bondage of sin and death. But the INC tries to pervert his Nature by simply trying to reason out some misunderstood biblical text.

Uulitin natin ayun sa Hebrew 1:4 ginawang higit na dakila kaysa mga anghel.

Ito na po: ano na nga ba ang nangyari noong unang nahayag na sa laman ang salita (Cristo):

Siya'y ginawa mong mababa ng kaunti kay sa mga anghel; Siya'y pinutungan mo ng kaluwalhatian at ng karangalan, At siya'y inilagay mo sa ibabaw ng mga gawa ng iyong mga kamay: - Heb. 2:7.

Ang linaw diba! Ang sabi ginawang mong mababa ng kaunti kaysa mga Anghel..hehe

Okay, did you read the rest of that chapter and know why Christ accepted the call? Or maybe select some parts as an excuse. So far as I know, messengers as your teaching goes are angels, and in that case, christ is lower than your messengers. Does it make sense? If you keep jumping on some verse without understanding the context obviously you'll be misguided. That's what it says on your commentary. 

Nakita mo na ba comparison? O nagbubulagbulagan ka lang.😅 Kung hindi pa. Uulitin ko!

Ang sabi sa Hebrew 1:4 higit na dakila kaysa sa mga Anghel. Ayun naman sa Hebrew 2:7 siya'y ginawa mong mababa ng kaunti kaysa mga anghel.case closed!

Say what? So, tell me, which part there do you accept? Hebrews 1:4 or Hebrews 2:7? As I have said, read the entire chapter to know the reason why Christ choose to live in Abraham's seed. There are reasons you people should know about his nature and yet you keep contradicting the scripture to satisfy your unitarian view. That won't work. 

haha kaya malinaw talaga na sinalita ng Dios yang Hebrew 1:8- hindi pa nahahayag ang taong si Cristo sa laman. Ito pa katunayan:

Okay, so it seems like you're trying to put the subject as an unfulfilled prophecy, while Paul is trying to explain how it was fulfilled. I don't know how you people understand the scriptures but I don't think that makes sense at all. If you can elaborate on it, then explain how this became an unfulfilled prophecy.

Balikan natin ang Hebrew 1:6 At nang isusugo na ng Diyos ang kanyang panganay na Anak sa sanlibutan ay sinabi niya...haha napakaliwanag pa sa sikat ng araw: future tense uulitin ko. ang sabi sa Hebrew 1:6 at nang isusugo or sa ibang salin, at ng dinadala (present tense). wala pang past tense jan..kaya malinaw na kahit sa faborito nyong salin pag sinuri sablay talaga aral nyo kahit sa mga faborito nyong talata.hehe😅😆😊

I don't think it necessary to dispute something that is already fulfilled. Simply you keep jumping off the topic to make it more meaningful in your INC doctrine. But perhaps we can learn together about the text you want to bring up. What exactly is it? -

Hebrew 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the first-begotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Did you catch it? Let's try some other version to see what it said -

Strong's Concordance
palin: back (of place), again (of time), further Original Word: πάλιν
Part of Speech: Adverb
Transliteration: palin
Phonetic Spelling: (pal'-in)
Definition: back (of place), again (of time), further
Usage: again, back, once more, further, on the other hand.

 παλιν (adverb) palin "pal'-in": (adverbially) anew, i.e. (of place) back, (of time) once more, or (conjunctionally) furthermore or on the other hand -- again.

Let's try to see the actual Tagalog text -

Hebrew 1:6 At muli nang dinadala niya ang panganay sa sangkalupaan ay sinasabi, At sambahin siya ng lahat ng mga anghel ng Dios.

Again, Just want to emphasize my point. It doesn't matter when it was as long as the nature of Christ remains the same. But still, you need to analyze the text though.

Moving forward, here are the questions he wants to open up. I don't know if I could understand it clearly in the Tagalog version -

Now, ito tanong ko sa inyo.

1. Noong binuhay ng Dios ng INC si Cristo at umakyat sa langit. Dios ba sya ngayon dun sa langit? Anong talata.😊

Yeah, sure let's answer that and will. I'll give my reference answer and at the same time, I'll throw some questions to make it more even -

My answer is Yes, here are my opinion -

1. Can a mere(Human) man sit on God's throne? - Hebrews 1:8, 12:2

2. Did Stephen says they have a difference in glory between Christ and God? Whom did he call to receive his spirit? - Acts 7:55-59

3. If he is still a man, what kind of Glory does he has while sitting with God? Did God share his Glory? - Isaiah 42:8, 48:11

4. Will he still die? If not, then what kind of Human doesn't die? -Additional Question

2. Sa panahon ba natin ngayon, nahayag na bang muli si Cristo?anong talata?

This could be on a different topic, but it's a good question. But anyway, let's try that. Here's my opinion below -

If you're talking about his second coming, of course no. No man knoweth when will he comes again only the Father. Don't misunderstand that line. The father is superior to him, which means He is the one who holds the plan as to when will be the second coming. But if you're talking about the restoration, in which INC also has the same doctrine of restoration, then My answer is yes, and let's get basic scriptures about it -

God will not do anything without a prophet, and of course, in your doctrine, you call it a messenger. - Amos 3:7. The only difference was, Christ never manifest to Felix and restore His Church.

Waiting for ur answers. Thanks!✌

- Done

Nature of Christ: Responding Emmanuel Dela Cruz

Some random Challenge of an INC member seems to call my attention. It's not a post but a formal Written Debate between LDS and INC and in this side comments he made a challenge on some Scripture that was used against them that they always twist for no good reason. Here is the text and let's try responding to some of it. 

Calling the attention of all members of Jesus christ latter day saint

Yung mga mahihilig gumamit ng mga maling salin sa Hebrew 1:8 at filipos 2:6-8 usap tayo. TINDIGAN NYO MGA MALING PAGKAKAUNAWA NYO.

So here, he opened up some scripture found in Hebrews 1:8 and Philippians 2:6-8. Let's try to see how it said first before we get through his comments -

Hebrews 1:8 (Nestle-Aland 28) πρὸς δὲ τὸν υἱόν·ὁ θρόνος σου ὁ θεὸς εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα τοῦ αἰῶνος, καὶ ἡ ῥάβδος τῆς εὐθύτητος ῥάβδος τῆς βασιλείας σου.

(Transliteration) pros de ton huion; ho thronos sou ho theos eis ton aiōna tou aiōnos, kai hē rhabdos tēs euthytētos rhabdos tēs basileias sou.

(Literal) Unto however the Son the throne of you O God [is] to the age of the age and the scepter of righteousness [is] the scepter of the kingdom of you.

(KJV Paraphrase) But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

And in Philippians 2:6-8 here's the text -

Philippians 2 (Nestle 1904)

6 ὃς ἐν μορφῇ Θεοῦ ὑπάρχων οὐχ ἁρπαγμὸν ἡγήσατο τὸ εἶναι ἴσα Θεῷ,

7 ἀλλὰ ἑαυτὸν ἐκένωσεν μορφὴν δούλου λαβών, ἐν ὁμοιώματι ἀνθρώπων γενόμενος· καὶ σχήματι εὑρεθεὶς ὡς ἄνθρωπος

8 ἐταπείνωσεν ἑαυτὸν γενόμενος ὑπήκοος μέχρι θανάτου, θανάτου δὲ σταυροῦ.

(Literal Emphasis Translation)

6 Who, already existing in the form of God, did not suppose (esteem, count) it something to be seized to be equal (greek-isos, latin-aequalem, identical, equivalent) with God,

7 but rather emptied Himself, having taken the form of a bond-slave, having emerged (become, been born) in the same likeness of men.

8 And having been found in outer appearance as a man, He humbled Himself, having become compliant even to death, even the death of the cross.

(Peshitta Holy Bible Translated)

6 He who, while he was in the form of God, did not esteem this as a prize, that he was the equal of God,

7 But he stripped himself and took the form of a Servant and was in the form of the children of men, and was found in fashion as a man.

8 And he humbled himself and was obedient unto death, even the death of being crucified.

Alright, so nothing suspicious, I just don't know why INC people keep twisting it. Well just see how he attempted to discredit Christ in this verse by just simply looking at some contradiction. Let's see how successful he was.

Alamin nga natin kung kailan sinalita ng Dios ng INC yung Hebrew 1:8: Based sa mga faborito nyong salin:

Simulan nga natin noong nasa langit pa ang kaganapan sa Hebrew 1:4-10 sabi ng Dios ayun sa Hebrew 1:4

Ang Anak ay ginawang higit na dakila kay sa mga anghel, tulad ng pangalan na ibinigay sa kanya ng Diyos ay higit na dakila.

Noong unang nahayag sa laman ayun sa 1temoteo 3:16.

He attempted to insert 1 Timothy 3:16 which says clearly about Christ and his Nature and how he successfully fulfilled his mission. But it seems he still has something on the table. Let's move forward to see how it goes -

ano na po bang nangyari? Ganun pa rin ba? kc nga based sa faborito nyong salin hinubad na daw pagkadios ayun sa filipos 2:6-8 . haha.

Seriously? How did you understand Philippians 2:6-8? Let's elaborate on it -

(Peshitta Holy Bible Translated)

6 He who, while he was in the form of God, did not esteem this as a prize, that he was the equal of God,

Christ was in the form of God, he was already there with the Father (as equal God) with the Glory he had before the world was created (John 17:5). But, did not take it in his Earthly Ministry rather (next verses) -

7 But he stripped himself and took the form of a Servant and was in the form of the children of men, and was found in fashion as a man.

He made himself low and took the tabernacle of man or as the seed of Abraham, and experience as a human had experience, to succor how every human suffering such as pain and death, so he can conquer it (Hebrew 2:16-18) -

8 And he humbled himself and was obedient unto death, even the death of being crucified.

And at the end of his atonement, Death is conquered and every soul is free. (1 Corinthians 15:52-58). That's the very reason why Christ took the seed of Abraham that all humans will be free from the bondage of sin and death. But the INC tries to pervert his Nature by simply trying to reason out some misunderstood biblical text.

Uulitin natin ayun sa Hebrew 1:4 ginawang higit na dakila kaysa mga anghel.

Ito na po: ano na nga ba ang nangyari noong unang nahayag na sa laman ang salita (Cristo):

Siya'y ginawa mong mababa ng kaunti kay sa mga anghel; Siya'y pinutungan mo ng kaluwalhatian at ng karangalan, At siya'y inilagay mo sa ibabaw ng mga gawa ng iyong mga kamay: - Heb. 2:7.

Ang linaw diba! Ang sabi ginawang mong mababa ng kaunti kaysa mga Anghel..hehe

Okay, did you read the rest of that chapter and know why Christ accepted the call? Or maybe select some parts as an excuse. So far as I know, messengers as your teaching goes are angels, and in that case, Christ is lower than your messengers. Does it make sense? If you keep jumping on some verse without understanding the context obviously you'll be misguided. That's what it says in your commentary. 

Nakita mo na ba comparison? O nagbubulagbulagan ka lang.😅 Kung hindi pa. Uulitin ko!

Ang sabi sa Hebrew 1:4 higit na dakila kaysa sa mga Anghel. Ayun naman sa Hebrew 2:7 siya'y ginawa mong mababa ng kaunti kaysa mga anghel.case closed!

Say what? So, tell me, which part there do you accept? Hebrews 1:4 or Hebrews 2:7? As I have said, read the entire chapter to know the reason why Christ chose to live in Abraham's seed. There are reasons you people should know about his nature and yet you keep contradicting the scripture to satisfy your unitarian view. That won't work. 

haha kaya malinaw talaga na sinalita ng Dios yang Hebrew 1:8- hindi pa nahahayag ang taong si Cristo sa laman. Ito pa katunayan:

Okay, so it seems like you're trying to put the subject as an unfulfilled prophecy, while Paul is trying to explain how it was fulfilled. I don't know how you people understand the scriptures but I don't think that makes sense at all. If you can elaborate on it, then explain how this became an unfulfilled prophecy.

Balikan natin ang Hebrew 1:6 At nang isusugo na ng Diyos ang kanyang panganay na Anak sa sanlibutan ay sinabi niya...haha napakaliwanag pa sa sikat ng araw: future tense uulitin ko. ang sabi sa Hebrew 1:6 at nang isusugo or sa ibang salin, at ng dinadala (present tense). wala pang past tense jan..kaya malinaw na kahit sa faborito nyong salin pag sinuri sablay talaga aral nyo kahit sa mga faborito nyong talata.hehe😅😆😊

I don't think it necessary to dispute something that is already fulfilled. Simply you keep jumping off the topic to make it more meaningful in your INC doctrine. But perhaps we can learn together about the text you want to bring up. What exactly is it? -

Hebrew 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the first-begotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Did you catch it? Let's try some other version to see what it said -

Strong's Concordance

palin: back (of place), again (of time), further Original Word: πάλιν

Part of Speech: Adverb

Transliteration: palin

Phonetic Spelling: (pal'-in)

Definition: back (of place), again (of time), further

Usage: again, back, once more, further, on the other hand.

 παλιν (adverb) palin "pal'-in": (adverbially) anew, i.e. (of place) back, (of time) once more, or (conjunctionally) furthermore or on the other hand -- again.

Let's try to see the actual Tagalog text -

Hebrew 1:6 At muli nang dinadala niya ang panganay sa sangkalupaan ay sinasabi, At sambahin siya ng lahat ng mga anghel ng Dios.

Again, Just want to emphasize my point. It doesn't matter when it was as long as the nature of Christ remains the same. But still, you need to analyze the text though.

Moving forward, here are the questions he wants to open up. I don't know if I could understand it clearly in the Tagalog version -

Now, ito tanong ko sa inyo.

1. Noong binuhay ng Dios ng INC si Cristo at umakyat sa langit. Dios ba sya ngayon dun sa langit? Anong talata.😊

Yeah, sure let's answer that and will. I'll give my reference answer and at the same time, I'll throw some questions to make it more even -

My answer is Yes, here are my opinion -

1. Can a mere(Human) man sit on God's throne? - Hebrews 1:8, 12:2

2. Did Stephen say they have a difference in glory between Christ and God? Whom did he call to receive his spirit? - Acts 7:55-59

3. If he is still a man, what kind of Glory does he have while sitting with God? Did God share his Glory? - Isaiah 42:8, 48:11

4. Will he still die? If not, then what kind of Human doesn't die? -Additional Question

2. Sa panahon ba natin ngayon, nahayag na bang muli si Cristo?anong talata?

This could be on a different topic, but it's a good question. But anyway, let's try that. Here's my opinion below -

If you're talking about his second coming, of course not. No man knoweth when will he comes again only the Father. Don't misunderstand that line. The father is superior to him, which means He is the one who holds the plan as to when will be the second coming. But if you're talking about the restoration, in which INC also has the same doctrine of restoration, then My answer is yes, and let's get basic scriptures about it -

God will not do anything without a prophet, and of course, in your doctrine, you call it a messenger. - Amos 3:7. The only difference was, that Christ never manifested to Felix and restored His Church.

Waiting for ur answers. Thanks!✌

- Done