Nothing but Trash: Part 1 (Neil Andi Anderson)
It's been quite some time doing this blog, and I decided to put something that I encountered on some social media. I was surprised by one of the INC members, who was seriously harsh and rude in his conversation. I thought INC were taught to change their lives? But it was just a gimmick. Their mind control begins after they're taught to hate and to talk trash to someone who believes they can't defend their right to religion. Their co-members even support the Mocking or scorning and some fallacious words they love to throw. So here I introduce you to their trashfulness (I don't know if such a word exists). Here are some of the examples that I collected and won't recommend to everyone who wants a healthy discussion it is part of their religious teachings or doctrine to hate everyone who gets on their way.
AD Hominem - most useful attack of INC fake accounts. It's their Natural Manner but they don't like to show it to everyone for the sake of INC Doctrine Number 17. That's why they use a fake account.
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| Neil Andi Anderson use the word "Kasing liit sa utak ng kuto. Nice Example |
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| Stupidity of lies between us? Just when did I lie to you, Neil? It's your teachings and of course I opposed your man-made doctrine. |
Missionary Experience
Elder 1: Now this one is perfect. Let's go and knock on doors and see if we can teach to them the restoration.
While knocking, they notice that someone's running inside the house and hiding. Still, they keep on knocking for a few minutes. Then finally they decided to go to other houses because they think the house owner is not interested in their teachings.
Elder 2: Okay Elder, let's go and find a good one. But before that, we will leave a note to this house so that people will realize the messages we have are important for their salvation.
Elder 1: Okay, so what will be the scripture verse you'll quote in?
Elder 2: This one, "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. - Revelation 3:20"
Elder 1: So, do you think that scripture message will work and might be someday they understand it and be baptized?
Elder 2: Don't worry Elder, they will understand it.
Main while as they keep knocking on the doors of different houses, the missionary was so disappointed for most of them rejected the missionaries and their teachings. So the two decide to find a good spot in a different town perhaps they could get a good investigator. And while on their way back, they noticed the first house where they'd put a note in the gate. And to their surprise, their note was answered, so they passed by and read the message on the gate.
Elder 1: Hey Elder, look at that. They reply to our posted note. Now this one is perfect.
Elder 2: I see, now read what the note says.
Elder 1: It's a scriptural verse too. That says uh! "And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked, and I hid myself. - Genesis 3:10"
Elder 2: I'm sure they will be baptized.
Elder 1: That's great, now let's teach them.
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| To the Missionaries of Philippines Olongapo Mission |
Part 7 - Job Bautista in Study of John and Revelation: Not to Add or Diminish
Here's another outrageous post from our friendly INC neighborhood. He thinks he understood it right while the text shows different insights. Text in red is my response, some colored text from scriptures.
Pagbubunyag sa maling aral ng Lds cut church: as his intro goes. He tried to bring up something that has been debunked a couple of times in this blog. He always fails and missed some important things in his study.
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| John writes the Revelation. John of Patmos (also called John the Revelator, John the Divine, John the Theologian) is the name traditionally given to the author of the Book of Revelation. The text of Revelation states that John was on Patmos, a Greek island where, according to most biblical historians, he was exiled as a result of anti-Christian persecution under the Roman emperor. Wikipedia Read here for the Book of Revelation |
John wrote his revelation in Patmos Isle. The Revelation was not yet compiled in the Bible soon after he vanishes and the discovery of his writings in Patmos isle. Job Bautista adapted this from critics long been debunked, before he knew this issue. In other words, you are too late Job Bautista.
Malinaw ang sabi ni Apostol Juan na huwag bawasan ni Dagdagan ang nakasulat sa Banal na kasulatan. Rev. 22:18-19. The revelation of John Never did say something about the entire scripture but rather the Revelation he received. His writing was written before the compilation of the scriptures of the Bible, but most people like Job Bautista used it as the entire book of Scripture. John's proclamation was intended for his revelation as to never add or diminished what is revealed to him.
But what did John really mean when he says it? Was it the conclusion of the Canon or should we say he mean to close the entire Bible while it was not yet compiled as a volume? Or the revelations that he received while writing it? So, I'll be waiting for your response to this one Job Bautista.
Upang ipasok ang aral ng demonyo kanilang ipinasok ang aral ni Sator na ang sabi hangal daw na magkakaroon ng Biblia. And where does it says that? Where does it say that the book of Mormon will insert something in the scriptures? And when did it says that Someone is a fool because of the Bible? So here's his lying goes and let's prove that in the Scriptures he quoted below is the 2 Nephi 29:3-4, 6, 10 as his selected scripture verses.
3 And because my words shall hiss forth—many of the Gentiles shall say: A Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be any more Bible.4 But thus saith the Lord God: O fools, they shall have a Bible; and it shall proceed forth from the Jews, mine ancient covenant people. And what thank they the Jews for the Bible which they receive from them? Yea, what do the Gentiles mean? Do they remember the travails, and the labors, and the pains of the Jews, and their diligence unto me, in bringing forth salvation unto the Gentiles?
5 O ye Gentiles, have ye remembered the Jews, mine ancient covenant people? Nay; but ye have cursed them, and have hated them, and have not sought to recover them. But behold, I will return all these things upon your own heads; for I the Lord have not forgotten my people.
6 Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible. Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the Jews?
7 Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the earth beneath; and I bring forth my word unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth?
8 Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto one nation like unto another. And when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also.
9 And I do this that I may prove unto many that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and that I speak forth my words according to mine own pleasure. And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever.
10 Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written.
From Book of Mormon Central who made a short overview about 2 Nephi 29:8
Let's make it very simple Job Bautista for your understanding since you are too slow to comprehend the writings. Here I'll post a Tagalog version for you. So let try to see how you understand it in our very own language. Let's go -
3 At dahil ang aking mga salita ay titimo—Marami sa mga Gentil ang magsasabi: Isang Biblia! Isang Biblia! Mayroon na kaming Biblia, at hindi na magkakaroon pa ng karagdagang Biblia.4 Ngunit ganito ang wika ng Panginoong Diyos: O mga hangal, sila’y magkakaroon ng Biblia; at iyon ay manggagaling sa mga Judio, na aking mga sinaunang pinagtipanang tao. At ano ang pasasalamatan nila sa mga Judio sa Biblia na kanilang tinanggap mula sa kanila? Oo, ano ang ibig sabihin ng mga Gentil? Naaalaala ba nila ang mga paghihirap, at ang mga pagpapagal, at ang mga pasakit ng mga Judio, at ang kanilang pagsusumikap para sa akin, sa pagdadala ng kaligtasan sa mga Gentil?
5 O kayong mga Gentil, inyo bang naaalaala ang mga Judio, na aking mga sinaunang pinagtipanang tao? Hindi, kundi inyong isinumpa sila, at kinamuhian sila, at hindi naghangad na sila ay mabawi. Ngunit masdan, ibabalik ko sa inyong sariling mga ulo ang lahat ng bagay na ito; sapagkat ako, ang Panginoon ay hindi nakalilimot sa aking mga tao.
6 Ikaw na hangal, na magsasabi: Isang Biblia, mayroon na kaming Biblia, at hindi na namin kailangan pa ng karagdagang Biblia. Nagkaroon ba kayo ng Biblia maliban sa ito ay sa pamamagitan ng mga Judio?
7 Hindi ba ninyo alam na maraming bansa hindi lamang iisa? Hindi ba ninyo alam na ako, ang Panginoon ninyong Diyos, ang lumikha sa lahat ng tao, at naaalaala ko yaong mga nasa bpulo ng dagat; at na ako ang namamahala sa kalangitan sa itaas at sa lupa sa ibaba; at isinisiwalat ko ang aking salita sa mga anak ng tao, oo, maging sa lahat ng bansa sa mundo?
8 Dahil dito, bumulung-bulong kayo, dahil ba sa kayo ay tatanggap pa ng karagdagang salita ko? Hindi ba ninyo alam na ang patotoo ng dalawang bansa ay saksi sa inyo na ako nga ang Diyos, na naaalaala ko ang isang bansa gaya ng iba? Dahil dito, sinasabi ko ang mga gayon ding salita sa isang bansa gaya ng sa iba. At kapag ang dalawang bansa ay susulong na magkasabay, ang patotoo ng dalawang bansa ay susulong ding magkasabay.
9 At ito ay ginagawa ko upang mapatunayan ko sa marami na ako rin ang siyang kahapon, ngayon, at magpakailanman; at sinasabi ko ang aking mga salita alinsunod sa aking sariling kasiyahan. At sapagkat ako’y nakapagsabi na ng isang salita ay hindi ninyo dapat akalain na hindi na ako muling magsasalita; sapagkat ang aking gawain ay hindi pa natatapos; ni hindi pa hanggang sa katapusan ng tao, ni sa simula ng panahong iyon at magpakailanman.
10 Dahil dito, sapagkat mayroon kayong Biblia ay hindi ninyo dapat akalain na yaon ay naglalaman na ng lahat kong salita; ni hindi ninyo dapat akalain na ako ay hindi na magpapasulat pa ng karagdagan.
Natitiyak natin na talagang ito ay gawa ng demonyo ayaw kasi ng demonyo na mabasa ang katotohanan na nakasulat sa Biblia. Juan 17:17 I pretty much agree, the very reason why you cherry-pick the most part is, that says only on your doctrine as INC and trash the others and proclaims it false Translation. I do agree that the demon holds the truth away from you through bigotry. (John 17:17 seems irrelevant to this topic. I don't know what you are up to, but maybe you're trying to say the word of God is true. No one object of that here. Maybe you misunderstood it as same as always) at ang Biblia ang siyang kinasihan ng Diyos na aklat ayon sa 2 Tim. 3:15-17, I have answered this already some time in our discussion and still, you don't want to accept it. If want to look at it some time you can check back and grab Some popcorn for some lectures to follow. https://truth-reflects.blogspot.com/2021/09/job-bautista-stupid-study-of-church.html?m=1. Anyway, so it was my address to you, that Timothy's understanding about the scriptures is limited to the old testament or Torah in his childhood days as Paul had said. The New Testament is not yet introduced to Timothy during Paul's declaration in his letter to him. This means it is not yet a full collection of the Bible. You have been crushed already on that article we'd had discussed. Huwag patigasin ang inyong puso panghawakan ang katotohanan. Can you do that Job Bautista? See how many words you'd ignored already because of your bigoted doctrine of INCult. Don't be a hypocrite, will you? Heb. 2:1-2. I don't know what are you up to in quoting these verses from Hebrews, but perhaps it helps you understand the truth rather keep sticking to the doctrine of you INC. So here's the text below to help you with it -
[Hebrews 2]Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
2 For if the word spoken by angels was steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
Tuparin ang salita ng Diyos. Yes, of course. So it's your assignment to find out the word of God write in the scriptures, not in a selected version and cherry-picks. You just keep fooling yourself in your understanding. Don't be too hard to the truth.
[Isaiah 55]8 ¶ For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
12 For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.
13 Instead of the thorn shall come up the fir tree, and instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle tree: and it shall be to the LORD for a name, for an everlasting sign that shall not be cut off.
I use your scripture to help you understand God's way. My point here is simple. God can do all things whatever he wants and he loves his children. We must understand his words that is why he provided some means to clarify and to witness his Love for us. The Bible talks about Him and the Book of Mormon testify about the Bible. And thus the scripture says in 2 Corinthians 13
This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.
And God's word is now established to understand the plan of salvation and redemption, and for us to avoid confusion.
1 Peter 1:25But the word of the Lord endureth forever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
This proves to us that God provided a plan to help us understand the truth. The Two scriptures work hand in hand and testify to each other in understanding the Gospel plan and thus it endures forever.
So here we can conclude that this INC member is not will oriented to scriptures and could never comprehend what was written. Thank you for proving it.
Part 4 - Neil Andi Anderson: Bigot Ministry Failure
This arrogant INC member thinks his wise enough to know the truth not knowing how he was brainwashed by their ministers. He think he can manipulate me with his doctrine. These are some of our selected conversations and I'll post it with response with his arrogant comment.
Jerry Nuñez Bustillo Ang pag-uugali mo Jerry boy ay puro lamang kamangmangan na nagmamarunong na nagaakala na matalino, you must have a balance of thinking bago mo tanggapin ang karunongan sa isang bible scholars kung may pagtatama ang kanyang pagkakaintindi. So, here goes the another arrogant comments from our friend Neil Andi Anderson, he said something about my commentary regarsing their ministey or doctrine. Look at how absurd? He ask me to have a balance thinking. really? so what do you think I did Neil? Do you find something like LDS doctrine in my post? It's on different source and different views, so how come you think it that way. I'm not quoting something from the LDS doctrine so that it would be fair to discuss just the Bible with you. But I think what you're saying is, to read also your ministry and doctrine. Basahin mo itong talata kung ano ang gagawin ng Diyos sa mga mangmang na tao na nagmamarunong na parang matalino. Basa moron! And look at that ad hominim of a immatured INC Member. ................................................................................................................................................................Sisirain ko ang karunungan ng marurunong at pawawalang kabuluhan ang talino ng matatalino. Actually, this has nothing to do with our topic the last time, but you keep posting irrelevant things and its ok for an immatured guy like you who knows just but a few doctine of your INC.
I'm assuming you quote 1 Corinthians 1:20-23 and I will highlight the text you give and will see how this make sense. Okay, so here we go -
20 Nasaan ang marunong? Nasaan ang guro ng kautusan? Nasaan ang nakikipagtalo ng kapanahunang ito? Hindi ba ang karunungan ng sanlibutang ito ay ginawa ng Diyos na kamangmangan? 21 Ito ay sapagkat sa karunungan ng Diyos, ang sanlibutan ay hindi nakakilala sa Diyos sa pamamagitan ng kanilang karunungan. Dahil dito ikinalugod ng Diyos na iligtas sila na sumasampalataya sa pamamagitan ng kamangmangan ng pangangaral. 22 Ang mga Judio ay humihingi ng tanda at ang mga Griyego ay naghahanap ng karunungan. 23 Ang aming ipinangangaral ay si Cristo na ipinako sa krus. Sa mga Judio siya Sisirain ko ang karunungan ng marurunong at pawawalang kabuluhan ang talino ng matatalino.
I don't know what are you up to and you posted this verses twice adding some part that I don't even think has the same meaning. See below -
20 Nasaan ang marunong? Nasaan ang guro ng kautusan? Nasaan ang nakikipagtalo ng kapanahunang ito? Hindi ba ang karunungan ng sanlibutang ito ay ginawa ng Diyos na kamangmangan? 21 Ito ay sapagkat sa karunungan ng Diyos, ang sanlibutan ay hindi nakakilala sa Diyos sa pamamagitan ng kanilang karunungan. Dahil dito ikinalugod ng Diyos na iligtas sila na sumasampalataya sa pamamagitan ng kamangmangan ng pangangaral. 22 Ang mga Judio ay humihingi ng tanda at ang mga Griyego ay naghahanap ng karunungan. 23 Ang aming ipinangangaral ay si Cristo na ipinako sa krus. Sa mga Judio siya ay katitisuran, sa mga Griyego siya ay kamangmangan. 24 Sa mga tinawag, Judio at Griyego, siya ay Cristo na siyang kapangyarihan ng Diyos at karunungan ng Diyos. 25 Ito ay sapagkat ang kamangmangan ng Diyos ay higit sa karunungan ng tao at ang kahinaan ng Diyos ay higit sa kalakasan ng tao. 26 Sapagkat nakita ninyo ang inyong pagkatawag, mga kapatid. Iilan lang ang matatalino ayon sa laman, iilan lang ang makapangyarihan, iilan lang ang maharlika na tinawag.
Napakalinaw sa mga talata na di po tayo dapat mananalig sa kanilang karunongan. You're quoting it not knowing how you became a victim of your own minister who brainwashed you what to say, what to read or study, and what to do. Ikaw na moron ka palagi kang nagmamatalino pero isa kang totoong mangmang. And look who's talking, calling someone a moron that make you a circus clown that don't even know what to do. His ad Hominem strikes makes him think he is wise, but it does makes him a fool. The scripture is even address for him and his arrogance.
[1 Corinthians 1]20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
Part 6 - Job Bautista: Far East Study
His introduction -
He believes it's the inception of the LDS Church, using the Book of Mormon to tackle some puzzles he can't solve. It's an intriguing perspective, considering how he interprets the propagation of Latter-day Saint beliefs during Book of Mormon times. This study is another unique take by Job Bautista, and it’s quite entertaining how he draws his conclusions. Despite some assumptions, it offers an interesting lens through which to view the early spread of the LDS faith. Let's explore this study and see how he pieces together his theories from the evidence in the Book of Mormon.Job Bautista: Jerry Nuñez Bustillo, Lds cult church propagation start from the Southwart to Northward ; read -
Job Bautista quoted: "Helaman 3: 8 And it came to pass that they did multiply and spread, and did go forth from the land southward to the land northward, and did spread insomuch that they began to cover the face of the whole earth, from the sea south to the sea north, from the sea west to the sea east."
This narrative isn’t connected to any ministry, proselytizing, or missionary activities. Instead, it focuses on the southward expansion of their community and the establishment of their new lives. To provide some context, Job Bautista often seems to miss the mark and misquote sources. So, here’s a relevant excerpt to clarify that it’s not about sending missionaries abroad; it’s about their journey across the land to build homes and create a livelihood.
The story details how they traveled throughout the land, constructing houses and establishing themselves in new territories. It’s important to understand that this wasn’t an effort to spread religious teachings or convert others, but rather to find suitable places to settle and thrive. This underscores the community’s endeavors to create a stable and prosperous life, focusing on domestic growth rather than external proselytizing.
Job Bautista's assumptions might take things out of context, but it’s clear from the source material that their actions were centered around community building and expansion within their own territory. This emphasizes the significance of their journey in securing a better future for their people, rather than engaging in missionary work. Let's dive into this study to explore their southward expansion and settlement efforts.
[Helaman 3]
4 And they did travel to an exceedingly great distance, insomuch that they came to large bodies of water and many rivers.
5 Yea, and even they did spread forth into all parts of the land, into whatever parts it had not been rendered desolate and without timber, because of the many inhabitants who had before inherited the land.
6 And now no part of the land was desolate, save it were for timber; but because of the greatness of the destruction of the people who had before inhabited the land it was called desolate.
7 And there being but little timber upon the face of the land, nevertheless the people who went forth became exceedingly expert in the working of cement; therefore they did build houses of cement, in the which they did dwell.
8 And it came to pass that they did multiply and spread, and did go forth from the land southward to the land northward, and did spread insomuch that they began to cover the face of the whole earth, from the sea south to the sea north, from the sea west to the sea east.
9 And the people who were in the land northward did dwell in tents, and in houses of cement, and they did suffer whatsoever tree should spring up upon the face of the land that it should grow up, that in time they might have timber to build their houses, yea, their cities, and their temples, and their synagogues, and their sanctuaries, and all manner of their buildings.
(see text in bold above and try answering the question below...)
- So, what was it all about, Job Bautista?
- Did the Book of Mormon already explain it to you, or are you confused by your own interpretations?
- Do you truly understand what you’re pointing out, or are you mixing it up with other doctrines?
- The narrative is about the community’s southward expansion—building homes and establishing livelihoods, not sending missionaries abroad.
- Could understanding the true context change your perspective on this story?
Hey Job Bautista! 😊 Just to clarify, the story you’re referring to isn’t about the propagation or spreading of the Gospel. It’s more about the community’s journey to settle in new lands and establish their homes. Sometimes, it just takes a bit of working those brain cells to fully understand the context of these narratives.Job Bautista: If you can see the propagation of the Lds church start from southward to Northward and they cover the face of the whole Earth ? And from the sea North , from the sea west to the East according to the BOM.
If you take a closer look and read the context carefully, you’ll see there’s nothing in there about sending missionaries or preaching the Gospel. Instead, it describes how the community traveled southward, built their houses, and aimed to make a better life for themselves. It’s all about settling down and creating a stable environment, not proselyting.
Understanding this context can offer a fresh perspective on the story. It’s easy to get things mixed up sometimes, especially with such rich and complex texts. But once you see the true focus, it becomes clear that their efforts were more about domestic growth and establishment rather than missionary work. Could this new understanding change how you view the narrative? Sometimes, the key lies in reading closely and appreciating the intended message.
Hope this sheds some light and brings clarity!
Have you ever thought about how our own biases affect our understanding of scripture? During Isaiah's time, many issues we see now had not yet spread. Christ himself advised against following the ways of the Gentiles. Could there be a deeper reason behind these teachings we often overlook?Job Bautista: We are sure that the the Lds church is not the true Church , because the direction of their propagation and place is different from direction of the prophecy of God written in the Bible . They are not the chosen people of God , they are the goats at the left hand of Jesus as describe
Reflect on this: Why do we sometimes struggle to understand scriptures? Is it possible that the teachings we were brought up with, or the prejudices we hold, cloud our perception? Are we open to considering different interpretations that might lead us to greater spiritual insights?
Instead of labeling others—or ourselves—as irredeemably slow to learn, what if we viewed these misunderstandings as opportunities for growth? Could it be that embracing humility and a willingness to learn could transform our spiritual journey?
Ask yourself, how can we better align ourselves with the spirit of Christ’s teachings? Could avoiding judgment and encouraging open-mindedness lead us to a more genuine understanding of divine wisdom? What steps can we take to ensure our beliefs are rooted in love and truth rather than prejudice and misunderstanding?
This scripture highlights Christ's initial instructions to His apostles, focusing their efforts on preaching to the Israelites. At that time, the Gospel was not yet prepared for the Gentiles.Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Christ made it clear that His mission was first to gather the lost sheep of Israel. However, did He mention a future for preaching to the Gentiles? Indeed, after His resurrection, Jesus commanded His apostles to teach all nations (Matthew 28:19), extending the Gospel’s reach far beyond Israel.
So, how does this apply to the Philippines being considered among the "other sheep"? The term "other sheep," referred to in John 10:16, implies a broader mission beyond initial Jewish outreach. The Gospel's spread to the Philippines much later shows the fulfillment of Christ’s prophecy that His teachings would reach every nation.
How do we reconcile this with Christ’s initial focus? Could this staged approach ensure the Gospel’s foundation was strong before expanding globally? Does this illustrate the profound wisdom in Christ’s inclusive, long-term mission? And how might this understanding deepen our appreciation for the Gospel's universal reach today?
Job Bautista: What is the prophecy of God concerning the re-emerging of the Church of Christ , His chosen people from the Far East to reach up to the Far West ? Read ;
Your paid ministers brainwash you, the gospel simply spread first from the Jews and then to the Gentiles. Christ as mentioned biblically that the gospel hadn't reached the Gentile nations until after His ascension, yet you assert it's already in the Philippines. There were Samaritan nations, spreading it abroad is too impossible reaching Philippine nations without even a trace. You should prioritized how important it is to tracked the line of authority from Felix Manalo than to rely on geographical evidence, which you say has no relevance to the Restoration of the Gospel.
To address these points, it is important to understand that Latter-day Saints believe the Restoration of the Gospel is a fulfillment of prophecies stated in the scriptures, which include spreading the gospel worldwide, as stated by prophets like Isaiah. The line of authority is indeed crucial in the context of maintaining true gospel principles. Tracing Felix Manalo’s authority is relevant if one claims divine authority; however, Latter-day Saints believe that the true line of authority was restored through Joseph Smith. Hence, the Restoration and global spreading of the gospel are valued based on ordained authority and fulfillment of scriptural prophecy, rather than geographical claims alone. How does this perspective align with your understanding? This is actually of different topic, but we could add it sometimes on our next discussions.
Job Bautista: From the far east I will bring your offspring, and from the far west I will gather you.” (Isa. 43:5, Moffat Translation)
You cite this due to the term "Far East," but using a single translation to support this claim may lack context, especially if the original Hebrew does not specify the Philippines or any particular location. Cherry-picking one translation might not capture the full intent of Isaiah's prophecy.
Let’s consider Isaiah’s message through the lens of faith. The essence of the prophecy is God’s promise to gather His people from all corners of the earth. In the context of the Restoration gospel, this gathering is seen as a spiritual and physical gathering of God’s children. While the term "Far East" might not be explicitly tied to the Philippines in Hebrew texts, the global missionary work of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints fulfills this prophecy in a broader sense. The gospel is preached to all nations, including the Philippines, demonstrating God's desire to reach His children everywhere.
Accepting this can strengthen your faith by recognizing that God's plan is grand and inclusive, reaching out to every nation, kindred, and tongue. It isn't about pinpointing exact locations mentioned in ancient prophecies but embracing the fulfillment of God’s promises through ongoing revelation and prophetic guidance today. How does this perspective inspire your faith in the global mission of the gospel?
Do not, אַל־ (’al-), Adverb, Strong's 408: Not
be afraid, תִּירָ֖א (tî·rā), Verb - Qal - Imperfect - second person masculine singular, Strong's 3372: To fear, to revere, caus, to frighten
for, כִּ֣י (kî) Conjunction, Strong's 3588: A relative conjunction
I, אָ֑נִי (’ā·nî) Pronoun - first person common singular, Strong's 589: I
am with you; אִתְּךָ־ (’it·tə·ḵā-), Preposition | second person masculine singular, Strong's 854: Nearness, near, with, by, at, among
I will bring, אָבִ֣יא (’ā·ḇî), Verb - Hifil - Imperfect - first person common singular, Strong's 935: To come in, come, go in, goyour offspring, זַרְעֶ֔ךָ (zar·‘e·ḵā), Noun - masculine singular construct | second person masculine singular, Strong's 2233: Seed, fruit, plant, sowing-time, posterity
from the east, מִמִּזְרָח֙ (mim·miz·rāḥ), Preposition-m | Noun - masculine singular, Strong's 4217: Place of sunrise, the east
and gather you, אֲקַבְּצֶֽךָּ׃ (’ă·qab·bə·ṣe·kā), Verb - Piel - Imperfect - first person common singular | second person masculine singular, Strong's 6908: To gather, collect
from the west., וּמִֽמַּעֲרָ֖ב (ū·mim·ma·‘ă·rāḇ), Conjunctive waw, Preposition-m | Noun - masculine singular, Strong's 4628: The west
So the Moffat Version has the Far East and this is not a problem of a normal reader who knows the context of the scripture. Isaiah Prophecy was all about the bondage of Israel to the other nation especially the Babylonian though during those times the Israelites are captives and some of them were wandering from the East to gain a living and land for their inheritances. To understand Isaiah's Prophecy we should go back to the very beginning of the chapter for us to know to whom it was addressed. And here's how it said -
I'm using New American Standard Version to these verses
1 But now, this is what the LORD says, He who is your Creator, Jacob, And He who formed you, Israel: “Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name; you are Mine!
2 “When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they will not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you will not be scorched, Nor will the flame burn you.
3 “For I am the LORD your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior; I have given Egypt as your ransom, [a]Cush and Seba in exchange for you.
4 “Since you are precious in My sight, Since you are honored and I love you, I will give other people in your place and other nations in exchange for your life.
5 “Do not fear, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east, And gather you from the west.
This was all about the Promises of God to his Chosen people Israel and how they will be gathered even from a far country. It was never about the propagation or the missionary work but rather a physical gathering of the lost people or tribe of Israel.
OK so, I made so much explanation and it seems like it's your homework that I work out. You should know that Job Bautista, you're already matured enough to see how these things are irrelevant to your doctrine. This doesn't prove anything about the Philippines.
Let's try to look at some of the translations to confirm this scripture and that Job Bautista will not just still to just one favorite version of Scripture just to meet the qualification of their doctrine. That doesn't seem right. If you think that is, then I challenge you INC to ask God in revelation to help you provide your version of the Bible rather than just pick something just right on your side. Okay so here's the other translation and I added your Favorite Lamsa version Job Bautista.
Modern Translations
- New International Version - Do not be afraid, for I am with you; I will bring your children from the east and gather you from the west.
- New Living Translation - “Do not be afraid, for I am with you. I will gather you and your children from east and west.
- English Standard Version - Fear not, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east, and from the west I will gather you.
- Berean Study Bible - Do not be afraid, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east and gather you from the west.
- New American Standard Bible - “Do not fear, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east, And gather you from the west.
- NASB 1995 - "Do not fear, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east, And gather you from the west.
- NASB 1977 - “Do not fear, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east, And gather you from the west.
- Amplified Bible - “Do not fear, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east [where they are scattered], And gather you from the west.
- Christian Standard Bible - Do not fear, for I am with you; I will bring your descendants from the east, and gather you from the west.
- Holman Christian Standard Bible - Do not fear, for I am with you; I will bring your descendants from the east, and gather you from the west.
- Contemporary English Version - Don't be afraid! I am with you. From both east and west I will bring you together.
- Good News Translation - Do not be afraid--I am with you! "From the distant east and the farthest west I will bring your people home.
- GOD'S WORD® Translation - Do not be afraid, because I am with you. I will bring your descendants from the east and gather you from the west.
- International Standard Version - "Don't be afraid, for I am with you; I'll bring your children from the east, and gather you from the west.
- NET Bible - Don't be afraid, for I am with you. From the east I will bring your descendants; from the west I will gather you.
- King James Bible - Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;
- New King James Version - Fear not, for I am with you; I will bring your descendants from the east, And gather you from the west;
- King James 2000 Bible - Fear not: for I am with you: I will bring your descendants from the east, and gather you from the west;
- New Heart English Bible - Do not be afraid; for I am with you. I will bring your descendants from the east, and gather you from the west.
- World English Bible - Don't be afraid; for I am with you. I will bring your seed from the east, and gather you from the west.
- American King James Version - Fear not: for I am with you: I will bring your seed from the east, and gather you from the west;
- American Standard Version - Fear not; for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;
- A Faithful Version - Fear not; for I am with you. I will bring your seed from the east, and gather you from the west.
- Darby Bible Translation - Fear not, for I [am] with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;
- English Revised Version - Fear not; for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;
- Webster's Bible Translation - Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;
- Geneva Bible of 1587 - Feare not, for I am with thee: I will bring thy seede from the East, and gather thee from the West.
- Bishops' Bible of 1568 - Feare not, for I am with thee, I will bryng thy seede from the east, and gather thee together from the west.
- Coverdale Bible of 1535 - that thou shuldest not feare, for I was with the. I wil bringe thy sede from the east, and gather the together from the west.
- Literal Standard Version - Do not be afraid, for I [am] with you, "" I bring in your seed from the east, "" And I gather you from the west.
- Young's Literal Translation - Be not afraid, for I am with thee, From the east I bring in thy seed, And from the west I gather thee.
- Smith's Literal Translation - Thou shalt not fear, for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the sunrisings, and from the west I will gather thee.
- Douay-Rheims Bible - Fear not, for I am with thee: I will. bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west.
Catholic Public Domain Version - Catholic Public Domain Version - Fear not, for I am with you. I will lead your offspring from the East, and I will gather you from the West.
- Peshitta Holy Bible Translated - You shall not fear, because I am with you. I shall bring your seed from the East, and from the West I shall gather you
Lamsa Bible - Lamsa Bible - Fear not; for I am with you; I will bring your descendants from the east, and gather you from the west;
- JPS Tanakh 1917 - Fear not, for I am with thee; I will bring thy seed from the east, And gather thee from the west;
Brenton Septuagint Translation - Brenton Septuagint Translation - Fear not; for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and will gather thee from the west.
- Berean Study Bible - Do not be afraid, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east and gather you from the west.
- Young's Literal Translation - Be not afraid, for I [am] with thee, From the east I bring in thy seed, And from the west I gather thee.
- Holman Christian Standard Bible - Do not fear, for I am with you; I will bring your descendants from the east, and gather you from the west.
- New American Standard Bible - "Do not fear, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east, And gather you from the west.
- King James Bible - Fear not: for I [am] with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;
[Job Bautista]
Through deeper examination of the verse, we will notice that Prophet Isaiah explicitly says “east” (v.5) and “fron afar” (v.6). Now since the ones being prophesized as coming from the “east” (v.5) are the very ones referred as “from afar” (v.6).
The word afar off is not in the verse that you're quoting and not even in the rest of the versions that I collected for you. Looks like you're including it just because it is part of your doctrine. There are a couple of similar words "Afar off" or "From Afar" that don't say something about the Philippines or rather some distant land.
Job Bautista: then it is clear that the ones being prophesized are “from afar” in the “east” or Far East.
Clear? No, I'm not a Bigot. But perhaps you can keep that since it is your doctrine. To accept it as the prophecy of the Philippines and the rise of the Iglesia Ni Christo is so absurd and I couldn't think of anything to link that prophecy about Felix and the INC church. Nothing at all.
Job Bautista: Iglesia Ni Cristo is firmly believing that James Moffat’s rendition is correct by substantiated by the fact that in original Hebrew, the word he translated as “far east” is mizrach (Isa. 43:5-6 Hebrew-English Tanakh by Jewish Publicationsl Society).
Yeah sure, it's your doctrine. Why would someone who seeks the truth that knows the bible would agree with that? This is simply absurd and you could not support your theology, if James Moffat's translation is correct then consider the rest of that version true, rather picking up only a part of it and proclaim it was the right verse to be true. That's not even comparing "Spiritual Things to Spiritual things" in Parallel Study. So, who would agree? NONE!
Job Bautista: Concerning the Hebrew term, “mizrach”, William Smith’s Dictionary of the Bible has this to say :
“EAST. THE HEBREW TERM KEDEM proper means which is before or in front of a person, and was applied to the east from the custom of turning in that direction when describing the points of the compass, before, behind, the right and left representing respectively east, west, north and south (Job 23:8, 9). The term generally used refers to the land lying immediately eastward of Palestine, Arabia, Mesopotamia and Babylonia. On the other hand, MIZRACH is USED OF THE FAR EAST with a less-definite signification (Isa. 43:5, Isa. 46:11).” [p. 154]
And do you think William Smith agrees that it is the Philippines that he meant or just simply a far country of the Promise land?
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| Some known Scholars disagree the INC Ideology |
Job Bautista: Here is the testimony of a reknown Bible scholar that “mizrach” is the Hebrew term used in Isaiah 43:5, and that this term is the equivalent in english of “far east”.
"Mizrach" (miz·rāḥ) Simply means East as to the direction of the Sunrise, you just added the Far East because of Moffat Translation, but there is no specific location if you are to take that translation literal as to where it faces. Here you're already debunking a couple of times in our discussions and still, you can't accept it just as accepting the scriptures word in your Lamsa Translation.
Job Bautista: That is the place where the Church of Christ or the Iglesia ni Cristo re-emerge from the Far East , the other sheep of Jesus John 10:16, Acts 2:39 , Acts 20:28 lamsa .
The other sheep is not a gentile nation and here you are still using it. Again, try to understand Christ words where he said to his disciples -
Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
How many times will I remind you for that and here you are trying to inject your doctrine of man. See my Post for Neil Andi Anderson at https://truth-reflects.blogspot.com/2021/09/part-1-neil-andi-anderson-responding.html?m=1 and answer the question for him since he can't keep up answering it.
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| And here you are Pointing South East. So, how was it fulfilled? |
Why Abraham leave his Homeland?
The Book Of Abraham
[Chapter 1]
In the land of the Chaldeans, at the residence of my fathers, I, Abraham, saw that it was needful for me to obtain another place of residence;
2 And, finding there was greater happiness and peace and rest for me, I sought for the blessings of the fathers, and the right whereunto I should be ordained to administer the same; having been myself a follower of righteousness, desiring also to be one who possessed great knowledge, and to be a greater follower of righteousness, and to possess a greater knowledge, and to be a father of many nations, a prince of peace, and desiring to receive instructions, and to keep the commandments of God, I became a rightful heir, a High Priest, holding the right belonging to the fathers.
3 It was conferred upon me from the fathers; it came down from the fathers, from the beginning of time, yea, even from the beginning, or before the foundation of the earth, down to the present time, even the right of the firstborn, or the first man, who is Adam, or first father, through the fathers unto me.
4 I sought for mine appointment unto the Priesthood according to the appointment of God unto the fathers concerning the seed.
5 My fathers, having turned from their righteousness, and from the holy commandments which the Lord their God had given unto them, unto the worshiping of the gods of the heathen, utterly refused to hearken to my voice;
6 For their hearts were set to do evil, and were wholly turned to the god of Elkenah, and the god of Libnah, and the god of Mahmackrah, and the god of Korash, and the god of Pharaoh, king of Egypt;
...
Those are some of the cut verses and some brief event of his life.
The Bible did not mention specifically about idolatry of his Father, but rather God commanded him to leave the place.
Why and what's the reason behind God's instruction to leave behind his homeland his or everything around him.
...
27 ¶ Now these are the generations of Terah: Terah begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran begat Lot.
28 And Haran died before his father Terah in the land of his nativity, in Ur of the Chaldees.
29 And Abram and Nahor took them wives: the name of Abram’s wife was Sarai; and the name of Nahor’s wife, Milcah, the daughter of Haran, the father of Milcah, and the father of Iscah.
30 But Sarai was barren; she had no child.
31 And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son’s son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram’s wife; and they went forth with them from Ur of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Canaan; and they came unto Haran, and dwelt there.
32 And the days of Terah were two hundred and five years: and Terah died in Haran.
- Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father’s house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
- And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
- And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
- Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.
- And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother’s son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls that they had gotten in Haran; and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan; and into the land of Canaan they came.
The Book of JubileesFrom www.pseudepigrapha.com see whole chapter just click on that link.Abram seeks to run Terah from idolatry, 1-8. Marries Sarai, 9. Haran and Nachor, 9-11. Abram burns the idols: death of Haran, 12-14 (cf. Gen. xi.28). Terah and his family go to Haran, 15. Abram observes the stars and prays, 16-21. Is bidden to go to Canaan and blessed, 22-4. Power of speaking Hebrew given to him, 25-7. Leaves Haran for Canaan, 28-31. (Cf. Gen. xi.31-xii.3.)
[Chapter 12]
- And it came to pass in the sixth week, in the seventh year thereof, [1904 A.M.] that Abram said to Terah his father, saying, 'Father!'
- And he said, 'Behold, here am I, my son.' And he said, What help and profit have we from those idols which thou dost worship, And before which thou dost bow thyself?
- For there is no spirit in them, For they are dumb forms, and a misleading of the heart. Worship them not:
- Worship the God of heaven,
- Who causes the rain and the dew to descend on the earth and does everything upon the earth, And has created everything by His Word, And all life is from before His face. Why do ye worship things that have no spirit in them? For they are the work of (men's) hands, And on your shoulders do ye bear them, And ye have no help from them, But they are a great cause of shame to those who make them, And a misleading of the heart to those who worship them: Worship them not.'
- And his father said unto him, I also know it, my son, but what shall I do with a people who have made me to serve before them?
- And if I tell them the truth, they will slay me; for their soul cleaves to them to worship them and honour them.
- Keep silent, my son, lest they slay thee.' And these words he spake to his two brothers, and they were angry with him and he kept silent.
The Apocalypse of Abraham[Chapter 1]1. On the day I was guarding the gods of my father Terah and the gods of my brother Nahor, while I was testing (to find out) which god is in truth the strongest,2. I (then) Abraham, at the time when my lot came, when I was completing the services, of my father Terah’s sacrifice to his gods of wood, of stone, of gold, of3. silver, of copper, and of iron, having entered their temple for the service, I found a god named Marumath, carved from stone, fallen at the feet of the iron god4. Nakhin. And it came to pass, that when I saw it my heart was perplexed and I thought in my mind that I, Abraham, could not put it back in its place alone,5. because it was heavy, (being made) of a big stone. But I went and told my father,6. and he came in with me. And when we both lifted it to put it in its place, its head7. fell off, even while I was holding it by its head. And it came to pass, when my father saw that the head of his god Marumath had fallen, he said to me, "Abraham!:8. And I said, "Here I am!" And he said to me, "Bring me the axes and chiselsfrom the house. "And I brought them to him9. from the house. And he cut another Marumath from another stone, without a head, and he smashed the head that had fallen off Marumath and the rest of Marumath.[Chapter 2]1. He made five other gods and he gave then to me and ordered me to sell them2. outside on the town road. I saddled my father’s ass and loaded them on it and3. went out on the highway to sell them. And behold merchants from Phandana of Syria were coming with camels, on their way to Egypt to buy kokonil from4. the Nile. I asked them a question and they answered me. And walking along I conversed with them. One of their camels screamed. The ass took fright and ran away and threw off the gods. Three of them were crushed and two remained5. (intact). And it came to pass that when the Syrians saw that I had gods, they said to me. ""Why did you not tell us that you had gods? We would have bought them6. before the ass.heard the camel’s voice and you have had no loss. Give us7. at least the gods that remain and we will give you a suitable price." I considered it in my heart. And they paid both for the smashed gods and the gods which8. remained. For I had been grieving in my heart how I would bring payment to my
9. father. I threw three broken (gods) into the water of the river Gur, which was in this place. And they sank into the depths of the river Gur and were no more.[Chapter 3]1. As I was still walking on the road, my heart was disturbed and my mind2. distracted. I said in my heart, "What is the inequality of activity which my3. father is doing? Is it not he rather who is god for his gods, because they come4. into being from his sculpting, his planning, and his skill? They ought to honor my father because they are his work. What is this food of my father in his works?5. Behold, Marumath fell and could not stand up in his sanctuary, nor could I myself6. lift him until my father came and we raised him up. And even so we were not able (to do it) and his head fell off of him. And he put it on another stone of7. another god, which he had made without a head. And... the other five gods which got smashed (in falling) from the ass, who could not save themselves and injure the ass because it smashed them, nor did their shards come up out of the8. river. And I said to my heart, "If it is so, how then can my father’s god Marumath, which has the head of another stone and which is made from another stone, save a man, or heart a man’s prayer, or give him any gift?"[Chapter 4]1. And thinking thus, I came to my father’s house. And I watered the ass and gave him hay. And I took out the silver and placed it in the hand of my father Terah.2. And when he saw it, he was glad, and he said, "You are blessed. Abraham, by the god of my gods, since you have brought me the price for the gods, so that my3. labor was not (in) vain." And answering I said to him, "Listen, father Terah! The gods are blessing in you, because you are a god for them, because you made4. them, for their blessing is their perdition and their power is vain. They did not5. help themselves; how then can they help you or bless me? I was good for you in this transaction, for through my good sense I brought you the silver for the6. smashed (gods)." And when he heard my speech he became furiously angry with me, because I had spoken harsh words against his gods.[Chapter 5]1. 1But having pondered my father’s anger, I went out. And afterward when I had2.(3.) gone out, he called me saying, "Abraham!" And I said, "Here I am!" And he said, "Up, gather wood chips, for I was making gods from fir before you came,4. and prepare with them food for my midday meal." And it came to pass, when I was choosing the wooden chips, I found among them a small god which would5.(6.) fit...in my left hand. And on its forehead was written: god Barisat. And it came to pass when I put the chips on the fire in order to prepare the food for my father, and going out to inquire about the food, I put Barisat near the enkindling
7. fire, saying to him threateningly, "Barisat, watch that the fire does not go out8. before I come back! If the fire goes out, blow on it so it flares up." I went out9. and I made my counsel. When I returned I found Barisat fallen on his back. His10. feet enveloped by fire and burning fiercely. And it came to pass when I saw it, I laughed (and) said to myself, "Barisat, truly you know how to light a fire and11. cook food!" And it came to pass while saying this in my laughter, I saw (that)12. he burned up slowly from the fire and became ashes. I carried the food to my13. father to eat. I gave him wine and milk, and he drank and he enjoyed himself14. and he blessed Marumath his god. And I said to him, "Father Terah, do not bless Marumath your god, do not praise him! Praise rather Barisat, your god, because, as though loving you, he threw himself into the fire in order to cook your food."15.(16.) And he said to me, "Then where is he now?" And I said, "He has burned in the fierceness of the fire and become dust." And he said, "Great is the power of Barisat! I will make another today, and tomorrow he will prepare my food."[Chapter 6]1. When I, Abraham, heard words like this from my father, I laughed in my mind,2. and I groaned in the bitterness and anger of my soul. I said, "How then is afigment of a body made by him (Terah) an aid for my father? Or can he have subordinated (his) body to his soul, his soul to a spirit, and the spirit to stupidity4. and ignorance?" And I said, "It is only proper to endure evil that I may throw5. my mind to purity and I will expose my thoughts clearly to him." I answered and said, "Father Terah, whichever of these gods you extol, you err in your thought.6. Behold, the gods of my brother Nahor standing in the holy sanctuary are more7. venerable than yours. For behold, Zouchaios, my brother Nahor’s god is more venerable than your god Marumath because he is made of gold, valued by man.8. And if he grows old with time, he will be remolded, whereas Marumath, if h9. e is changed or broken, will not be renewed, because he is stone. What about Ioav, the god on the other god, who stands with Zouchaios? For he is also more venerable than the god Barisat; he is carved from wood and forged from silver. Because he too is a term of comparison, being valued by man according to external 10,11experience. But Barisat, your god, when he was still not carved, rooted in the12. earth, being great and wondrous, with branches and flowers; and praise...But13. you made him with an axe, and by your skill he was made a god. And behold14. he has already dried up and his fatness has perished. He fell from the height to15. the earth, he came from greatness to smallness, and the appearance of his face17. wasted away. And, he himself was burned up by the fire and he became ashes18. and is no more. And you say, Let me make another and tomorrow he will make
19. my food for me. But in perishing he left himself no strength for his (own) destruction."[Chapter 7]1. This I say:2. Fire is more venerable in formation, for even the unsubdued (things) are subdued in it, and it mocks that which perishes easily by means of its3. burning. But neither is it venerable, for it is subject to the waters.4. But rather the waters are more venerable than it (fire), because they overcome fire and sweeten the earth5. with fruits. But I will not call them god either, for the waters subside under the6. earth and are subject to it. But I will not call it a goddess either, for it is dried by the sun (and) subordinated to man for his work.7. More venerable among the gods, I say, is the sun, for with its rays it illuminates the whole universe and the various airs.8. Nor will I place among the gods the one who obscures his course by means of the moon and the clouds.9. Nor again shall I call the moon or the stars gods, because they too at times during the night dim their light.10. Listen, Terah my father, I shall seek before you the God who created all the gods supposed by us (to exist).11. For who is it, or which one is it who made the heavens crimson and the sun golden, who has given light to the moon and the stars with it, who has dried the earth in the midst of the many waters, who set you yourself among the things and who has sought me out in the perplexity of my thoughts?12. I (only) God will reveal himself by himself to us!"[Chapter 8]1. And it cane to pass as I was thinking things like these with regard to my father Terah in the court of my house, the voice of the Mighty One came down from2. the heavens in a stream of fire, saying and calling, "Abraham, Abraham!" And3. I said, "Here I am." And he said, "You are searching of the God of gods, the4. Creator, in the understanding of your heart. I am he. Go out from Terah, your father, and go out of the house, that you too may not be slain in the sins of your5. father’s house." And it came to pass as I went out-I was not6. yet outside the entrance of the court- that the sound of a great thunder came and burned him and his house and everything in his house, down to the ground, forty cubits.[Chapter 9]1.(2.) Then a voice came speaking to me twice: "Abraham, Abraham!" And I said, 1. Then a voice came to me speaking twice, "Abraham! Abraham!" and I said, "Here I am!" And He said, "Behold it is I, fear not for I am with you, for I AM before the ages, even the Mighty God who created the first light of the world. I am your shield and your helper."3. "Here I am." And he said, "Behold, it is I, Fear not, for I an Before-the-World4. and Mighty, the God who created previously, before the light of the age. I am5. the protector for you and I am your helper.Go, get me a three-year-old heifer, a three-year-old she-goat, a three-year-old ram, a turtledove, and a pigeon, 2. "Go, take me a young heifer of three years, and a she-goat of three years, and a ram of three years, a turtledove and a pigeon, and bring me a pure sacrifice. And in this sacrifice I will lay before you the ages to come, and make known to you what is reserved, and you shall see great things which you have not hitherto seen:
6. and make me a pure sacrifice. And in this sacrifice I will place the ages. I will announce to you guarded things and you will see great things which you have not7. seen, because you desired to search for me, and I called you my beloved. But for forty days abstain from every kind of food cooked by fire, and from drinking 3. because you have loved to search me out, and I have named you 'my friend.' But abstain from every form of food that comes forth out of the fire, and from the drinking of wine, and from anointing yourself with oil, for forty days, and then set forth for me the sacrifice which I have commanded you, in a place which I will show you on a high mountain, and there I will show you the ages which have been created and established by my word, and I will make known to you what shall come to pass in them on those who have done evil and righteousness in the generations of men."8. of wine and from anointing (yourself) with oil. And then you shall set out for me the sacrifice, which I have commanded you, in the place which I will show you9. on a high mountain. And there I will show you the things which were made by10. the ages and by my word, and affirmed, created, and renewed. And I will announce to you in them what will come upon those who have done evil and just things in the race of man."