Part 6 - Job Bautista: Far East Study

Here's another study by Job Bautista, and it's actually kind of amusing. 😄 He makes some interesting assumptions about the spread of the LDS during Book of Mormon times. Without further ado, let's dive in!

His introduction -

Job Bautista: Jerry Nuñez Bustillo, Lds cult church propagation start from the Southwart to Northward ; read -

He believes it's the inception of the LDS Church, using the Book of Mormon to tackle some puzzles he can't solve. It's an intriguing perspective, considering how he interprets the propagation of Latter-day Saint beliefs during Book of Mormon times. This study is another unique take by Job Bautista, and it’s quite entertaining how he draws his conclusions. Despite some assumptions, it offers an interesting lens through which to view the early spread of the LDS faith. Let's explore this study and see how he pieces together his theories from the evidence in the Book of Mormon.

Job Bautista quoted: "Helaman 3: 8 And it came to pass that they did multiply and spread, and did go forth from the land southward to the land northward, and did spread insomuch that they began to cover the face of the whole earth, from the sea south to the sea north, from the sea west to the sea east."

This narrative isn’t connected to any ministry, proselytizing, or missionary activities. Instead, it focuses on the southward expansion of their community and the establishment of their new lives. To provide some context, Job Bautista often seems to miss the mark and misquote sources. So, here’s a relevant excerpt to clarify that it’s not about sending missionaries abroad; it’s about their journey across the land to build homes and create a livelihood.

The story details how they traveled throughout the land, constructing houses and establishing themselves in new territories. It’s important to understand that this wasn’t an effort to spread religious teachings or convert others, but rather to find suitable places to settle and thrive. This underscores the community’s endeavors to create a stable and prosperous life, focusing on domestic growth rather than external proselytizing.

Job Bautista's assumptions might take things out of context, but it’s clear from the source material that their actions were centered around community building and expansion within their own territory. This emphasizes the significance of their journey in securing a better future for their people, rather than engaging in missionary work. Let's dive into this study to explore their southward expansion and settlement efforts.

[Helaman 3]

4 And they did travel to an exceedingly great distance, insomuch that they came to large bodies of water and many rivers.

5 Yea, and even they did spread forth into all parts of the land, into whatever parts it had not been rendered desolate and without timber, because of the many inhabitants who had before inherited the land.

6 And now no part of the land was desolate, save it were for timber; but because of the greatness of the destruction of the people who had before inhabited the land it was called desolate.

7 And there being but little timber upon the face of the land, nevertheless the people who went forth became exceedingly expert in the working of cement; therefore they did build houses of cement, in the which they did dwell.

8 And it came to pass that they did multiply and spread, and did go forth from the land southward to the land northward, and did spread insomuch that they began to cover the face of the whole earth, from the sea south to the sea north, from the sea west to the sea east.

9 And the people who were in the land northward did dwell in tents, and in houses of cement, and they did suffer whatsoever tree should spring up upon the face of the land that it should grow up, that in time they might have timber to build their houses, yea, their cities, and their temples, and their synagogues, and their sanctuaries, and all manner of their buildings.

(see text in bold above and try answering the question below...)

• So, what was it all about, Job Bautista?
• Did the Book of Mormon already explain it to you, or are you confused by your own interpretations?
• Do you truly understand what you’re pointing out, or are you mixing it up with other doctrines?
• The narrative is about the community’s southward expansion—building homes and establishing livelihoods, not sending missionaries abroad.
• Could understanding the true context change your perspective on this story?

It seems you might need better reading comprehension to grasp the context.

Job Bautista: If you can see the propagation of the Lds church start from southward to Northward and they cover the face of the whole Earth ? And from the sea North , from the sea west to the East according to the BOM.

Hey Job Bautista! 😊 Just to clarify, the story you’re referring to isn’t about the propagation or spreading of the Gospel. It’s more about the community’s journey to settle in new lands and establish their homes. Sometimes, it just takes a bit of working those brain cells to fully understand the context of these narratives.

If you take a closer look and read the context carefully, you’ll see there’s nothing in there about sending missionaries or preaching the Gospel. Instead, it describes how the community traveled southward, built their houses, and aimed to make a better life for themselves. It’s all about settling down and creating a stable environment, not proselyting.

Understanding this context can offer a fresh perspective on the story. It’s easy to get things mixed up sometimes, especially with such rich and complex texts. But once you see the true focus, it becomes clear that their efforts were more about domestic growth and establishment rather than missionary work. Could this new understanding change how you view the narrative? Sometimes, the key lies in reading closely and appreciating the intended message.

Hope this sheds some light and brings clarity!

Job Bautista: We are sure that the the Lds church is not the true Church , because the direction of their propagation and place is different from direction of the  prophecy of God written in the Bible . They are not the chosen people of God , they are the goats at the left hand of Jesus as describe

Have you ever thought about how our own biases affect our understanding of scripture? During Isaiah's time, many issues we see now had not yet spread. Christ himself advised against following the ways of the Gentiles. Could there be a deeper reason behind these teachings we often overlook?

Reflect on this: Why do we sometimes struggle to understand scriptures? Is it possible that the teachings we were brought up with, or the prejudices we hold, cloud our perception? Are we open to considering different interpretations that might lead us to greater spiritual insights?

Instead of labeling others—or ourselves—as irredeemably slow to learn, what if we viewed these misunderstandings as opportunities for growth? Could it be that embracing humility and a willingness to learn could transform our spiritual journey?

Ask yourself, how can we better align ourselves with the spirit of Christ’s teachings? Could avoiding judgment and encouraging open-mindedness lead us to a more genuine understanding of divine wisdom? What steps can we take to ensure our beliefs are rooted in love and truth rather than prejudice and misunderstanding?

Now think about it before labelling me or someone without understanding what is written.

Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

This scripture highlights Christ's initial instructions to His apostles, focusing their efforts on preaching to the Israelites. At that time, the Gospel was not yet prepared for the Gentiles.

Christ made it clear that His mission was first to gather the lost sheep of Israel. However, did He mention a future for preaching to the Gentiles? Indeed, after His resurrection, Jesus commanded His apostles to teach all nations (Matthew 28:19), extending the Gospel’s reach far beyond Israel.

So, how does this apply to the Philippines being considered among the "other sheep"? The term "other sheep," referred to in John 10:16, implies a broader mission beyond initial Jewish outreach. The Gospel's spread to the Philippines much later shows the fulfillment of Christ’s prophecy that His teachings would reach every nation.
How do we reconcile this with Christ’s initial focus? Could this staged approach ensure the Gospel’s foundation was strong before expanding globally? Does this illustrate the profound wisdom in Christ’s inclusive, long-term mission? And how might this understanding deepen our appreciation for the Gospel's universal reach today?

Job Bautista: What is the prophecy of God concerning the re-emerging of the Church of Christ , His chosen people from the Far East to reach up to the Far West ? Read ;

Your paid ministers brainwash you, the gospel simply spread first from the Jews and then to the Gentiles. Christ as mentioned biblically that the gospel hadn't reached the Gentile nations until after His ascension, yet you assert it's already in the Philippines. There were Samaritan nations, spreading it abroad is too impossible reaching Philippine nations without even a trace. You should prioritized how important it is to tracked the line of authority from Felix Manalo than to rely on geographical evidence, which you say has no relevance to the Restoration of the Gospel.

To address these points, it is important to understand that Latter-day Saints believe the Restoration of the Gospel is a fulfillment of prophecies stated in the scriptures, which include spreading the gospel worldwide, as stated by prophets like Isaiah. The line of authority is indeed crucial in the context of maintaining true gospel principles. Tracing Felix Manalo’s authority is relevant if one claims divine authority; however, Latter-day Saints believe that the true line of authority was restored through Joseph Smith. Hence, the Restoration and global spreading of the gospel are valued based on ordained authority and fulfillment of scriptural prophecy, rather than geographical claims alone. How does this perspective align with your understanding? This is actually of different topic, but we could add it sometimes on our next discussions.

Job Bautista: From the far east I will bring your offspring, and from the far west I will gather you.” (Isa. 43:5, Moffat Translation)

You cite this due to the term "Far East," but using a single translation to support this claim may lack context, especially if the original Hebrew does not specify the Philippines or any particular location. Cherry-picking one translation might not capture the full intent of Isaiah's prophecy.

Let’s consider Isaiah’s message through the lens of faith. The essence of the prophecy is God’s promise to gather His people from all corners of the earth. In the context of the Restoration gospel, this gathering is seen as a spiritual and physical gathering of God’s children. While the term "Far East" might not be explicitly tied to the Philippines in Hebrew texts, the global missionary work of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints fulfills this prophecy in a broader sense. The gospel is preached to all nations, including the Philippines, demonstrating God's desire to reach His children everywhere.

Accepting this can strengthen your faith by recognizing that God's plan is grand and inclusive, reaching out to every nation, kindred, and tongue. It isn't about pinpointing exact locations mentioned in ancient prophecies but embracing the fulfillment of God’s promises through ongoing revelation and prophetic guidance today. How does this perspective inspire your faith in the global mission of the gospel?

Do not, אַל־ (’al-), Adverb, Strong's 408: Not

be afraid, תִּירָ֖א (tî·rā), Verb - Qal - Imperfect - second person masculine singular, Strong's 3372: To fear, to revere, caus, to frighten

 for, כִּ֣י (kî) Conjunction, Strong's 3588: A relative conjunction

I, אָ֑נִי (’ā·nî) Pronoun - first person common singular, Strong's 589: I

 am with you; אִתְּךָ־ (’it·tə·ḵā-), Preposition | second person masculine singular, Strong's 854: Nearness, near, with, by, at, among

I will bring, אָבִ֣יא (’ā·ḇî), Verb - Hifil - Imperfect - first person common singular, Strong's 935: To come in, come, go in, go

your offspring, זַרְעֶ֔ךָ (zar·‘e·ḵā), Noun - masculine singular construct | second person masculine singular, Strong's 2233: Seed, fruit, plant, sowing-time, posterity

from the east, מִמִּזְרָח֙ (mim·miz·rāḥ), Preposition-m | Noun - masculine singular, Strong's 4217: Place of sunrise, the east

and gather you, אֲקַבְּצֶֽךָּ׃ (’ă·qab·bə·ṣe·kā), Verb - Piel - Imperfect - first person common singular | second person masculine singular, Strong's 6908: To gather, collect

from the west., וּמִֽמַּעֲרָ֖ב (ū·mim·ma·‘ă·rāḇ), Conjunctive waw, Preposition-m | Noun - masculine singular, Strong's 4628: The west

So the Moffat Version has the Far East and this is not a problem of a normal reader who knows the context of the scripture. Isaiah Prophecy was all about the bondage of Israel to the other nation especially the Babylonian though during those times the Israelites are captives and some of them were wandering from the East to gain a living and land for their inheritances. To understand Isaiah's Prophecy we should go back to the very beginning of the chapter for us to know to whom it was addressed. And here's how it said - 

I'm using New American Standard Version to these verses

1 But now, this is what the LORD says, He who is your Creator, Jacob, And He who formed you, Israel: “Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name; you are Mine!

2 “When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they will not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you will not be scorched, Nor will the flame burn you.

3 “For I am the LORD your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior; I have given Egypt as your ransom, [a]Cush and Seba in exchange for you.

4 “Since you are precious in My sight, Since you are honored and I love you, I will give other people in your place and other nations in exchange for your life.

5 “Do not fear, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east, And gather you from the west.

This was all about the Promises of God to his Chosen people Israel and how they will be gathered even from a far country. It was never about the propagation or the missionary work but rather a physical gathering of the lost people or tribe of Israel.

OK so, I made so much explanation and it seems like it's your homework that I work out. You should know that Job Bautista, you're already matured enough to see how these things are irrelevant to your doctrine. This doesn't prove anything about the Philippines.

Let's try to look at some of the translations to confirm this scripture and that Job Bautista will not just still to just one favorite version of Scripture just to meet the qualification of their doctrine. That doesn't seem right. If you think that is, then I challenge you INC to ask God in revelation to help you provide your version of the Bible rather than just pick something just right on your side. Okay so here's the other translation and I added your Favorite Lamsa version Job Bautista.

Modern Translations

• New International Version - Do not be afraid, for I am with you; I will bring your children from the east and gather you from the west.
• New Living Translation - “Do not be afraid, for I am with you. I will gather you and your children from east and west.
• English Standard Version - Fear not, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east, and from the west I will gather you.
• Berean Study Bible - Do not be afraid, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east and gather you from the west.
• New American Standard Bible - “Do not fear, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east, And gather you from the west.
• NASB 1995 - "Do not fear, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east, And gather you from the west.
• NASB 1977 - “Do not fear, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east, And gather you from the west.
• Amplified Bible - “Do not fear, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east [where they are scattered], And gather you from the west.
• Christian Standard Bible - Do not fear, for I am with you; I will bring your descendants from the east, and gather you from the west.
• Holman Christian Standard Bible - Do not fear, for I am with you; I will bring your descendants from the east, and gather you from the west.
• Contemporary English Version - Don't be afraid! I am with you. From both east and west I will bring you together.
• Good News Translation - Do not be afraid--I am with you! "From the distant east and the farthest west I will bring your people home.
• GOD'S WORD® Translation - Do not be afraid, because I am with you. I will bring your descendants from the east and gather you from the west.
• International Standard Version - "Don't be afraid, for I am with you; I'll bring your children from the east, and gather you from the west.
• NET Bible - Don't be afraid, for I am with you. From the east I will bring your descendants; from the west I will gather you.

Classic Translations

• King James Bible - Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;
• New King James Version - Fear not, for I am with you; I will bring your descendants from the east, And gather you from the west;
• King James 2000 Bible - Fear not: for I am with you: I will bring your descendants from the east, and gather you from the west;
• New Heart English Bible - Do not be afraid; for I am with you. I will bring your descendants from the east, and gather you from the west.
• World English Bible - Don't be afraid; for I am with you. I will bring your seed from the east, and gather you from the west.
• American King James Version - Fear not: for I am with you: I will bring your seed from the east, and gather you from the west;
• American Standard Version - Fear not; for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;
• A Faithful Version - Fear not; for I am with you. I will bring your seed from the east, and gather you from the west.
• Darby Bible Translation - Fear not, for I [am] with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;
• English Revised Version - Fear not; for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;
• Webster's Bible Translation - Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;

Early Modern

• Geneva Bible of 1587 - Feare not, for I am with thee: I will bring thy seede from the East, and gather thee from the West.
• Bishops' Bible of 1568 - Feare not, for I am with thee, I will bryng thy seede from the east, and gather thee together from the west.
  
• Coverdale Bible of 1535 - that thou shuldest not feare, for I was with the. I wil bringe thy sede from the east, and gather the together from the west.

Literal Translations

• Literal Standard Version - Do not be afraid, for I [am] with you, "" I bring in your seed from the east, "" And I gather you from the west.
  
• Young's Literal Translation - Be not afraid, for I am with thee, From the east I bring in thy seed, And from the west I gather thee.
  
• Smith's Literal Translation - Thou shalt not fear, for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the sunrisings, and from the west I will gather thee.

Catholic Translations

• Douay-Rheims Bible - Fear not, for I am with thee: I will. bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west.
  Catholic Public Domain Version
• Catholic Public Domain Version - Fear not, for I am with you. I will lead your offspring from the East, and I will gather you from the West.

Translations from Aramaic

• Peshitta Holy Bible Translated - You shall not fear, because I am with you. I shall bring your seed from the East, and from the West I shall gather you
  Lamsa Bible
• Lamsa Bible - Fear not; for I am with you; I will bring your descendants from the east, and gather you from the west;
  

OT Translations

• JPS Tanakh 1917 - Fear not, for I am with thee; I will bring thy seed from the east, And gather thee from the west;
  Brenton Septuagint Translation
• Brenton Septuagint Translation - Fear not; for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and will gather thee from the west.

Parallel Strong's

• Berean Study Bible - Do not be afraid, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east and gather you from the west.
• Young's Literal Translation - Be not afraid, for I [am] with thee, From the east I bring in thy seed, And from the west I gather thee.
• Holman Christian Standard Bible - Do not fear, for I am with you; I will bring your descendants from the east, and gather you from the west.
  
• New American Standard Bible - "Do not fear, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east, And gather you from the west.
• King James Bible - Fear not: for I [am] with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;

[Job Bautista]

Through deeper examination of the verse, we will notice that Prophet Isaiah explicitly says “east” (v.5) and “fron afar” (v.6). Now since the ones being prophesized as coming from the “east” (v.5) are the very ones referred as “from afar” (v.6).

The word afar off is not in the verse that you're quoting and not even in the rest of the versions that I collected for you. Looks like you're including it just because it is part of your doctrine. There are a couple of similar words "Afar off" or "From Afar" that don't say something about the Philippines or rather some distant land.

Job Bautista: then it is clear that the ones being prophesized are “from afar” in the “east” or Far East.

Clear? No, I'm not a Bigot. But perhaps you can keep that since it is your doctrine. To accept it as the prophecy of the Philippines and the rise of the Iglesia Ni Christo is so absurd and I couldn't think of anything to link that prophecy about Felix and the INC church. Nothing at all.

Job Bautista: Iglesia Ni Cristo is firmly believing that James Moffat’s rendition is correct by substantiated by the fact that in original Hebrew, the word he translated as “far east” is mizrach (Isa. 43:5-6 Hebrew-English Tanakh by Jewish Publicationsl Society).

Yeah sure, it's your doctrine. Why would someone who seeks the truth that knows the bible would agree with that? This is simply absurd and you could not support your theology, if James Moffat's translation is correct then consider the rest of that version true, rather picking up only a part of it and proclaim it was the right verse to be true. That's not even comparing "Spiritual Things to Spiritual things" in Parallel Study. So, who would agree? NONE!

Job Bautista: Concerning the Hebrew term, “mizrach”, William Smith’s Dictionary of the Bible has this to say :

“EAST. THE HEBREW TERM KEDEM proper means which is before or in front of a person, and was applied to the east from the custom of turning in that direction when describing the points of the compass, before, behind, the right and left representing respectively east, west, north and south (Job 23:8, 9). The term generally used refers to the land lying immediately eastward of Palestine, Arabia, Mesopotamia and Babylonia. On the other hand, MIZRACH is USED OF THE FAR EAST with a less-definite signification (Isa. 43:5, Isa. 46:11).” [p. 154]

And do you think William Smith agrees that it is the Philippines that he meant or just simply a far country of the Promise land?

Some known Scholars disagree the INC Ideology

Job Bautista: Here is the testimony of a reknown Bible scholar that “mizrach” is the Hebrew term used in Isaiah 43:5, and that this term is the equivalent in english of “far east”.

"Mizrach" (miz·rāḥ) Simply means East as to the direction of the Sunrise, you just added the Far East because of Moffat Translation, but there is no specific location if you are to take that translation literal as to where it faces. Here you're already debunking a couple of times in our discussions and still, you can't accept it just as accepting the scriptures word in your Lamsa Translation.

Job Bautista: That is the place where the Church of Christ or the Iglesia ni Cristo re-emerge from the Far East , the other sheep of Jesus John 10:16, Acts 2:39 , Acts 20:28 lamsa .

The other sheep is not a gentile nation and here you are still using it. Again, try to understand Christ words where he said to his disciples -

Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

How many times will I remind you for that and here you are trying to inject your doctrine of man. See my Post for Neil Andi Anderson at https://truth-reflects.blogspot.com/2021/09/part-1-neil-andi-anderson-responding.html?m=1 and answer the question for him since he can't keep up answering it.

And here you are Pointing South East.
So, how was it fulfilled?