Once again, an attack has been launched by an individual named Job Bautista, who holds antagonistic views towards the Latter-day Saints. He has posed a question concerning the sacrament instituted by the church, specifically questioning why water is used instead of wine. Let's discuss and explore this inquiry without delay. Please note that my comments will be denoted in colored text.
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It wasn't the issue.
But yes there is a scripture
about that question of yours. |
But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. - John 19:34
May tanong tayo kay Jerry Nuñez Bustillo isa magiting na tagapagtanggol ni Joseph Smith, ayon sa kanya sa kanilang pagbabanal na Hapunan o Santa Cena ay iniinom din naman sila at kumakain.
The weekly Sacrament holds deep significance in our faith as we gather regularly to partake in this sacred ordinance. Rather than referring to it as "Santa Cena" or "Holy Supper," we maintain the simple and straightforward term of the Sacrament.
By partaking in the bread and water, we symbolically remember and honor the profound sacrifice of Jesus Christ and his atonement for humanity. It serves as a reminder of his love, compassion, and infinite mercy towards us.
Unlike the INC's yearly rituals, our faith encourages us to institute the Sacrament every week. This frequent observance allows us to continually deepen our connection with divinity and reinforce our commitment to live according to Christ's teachings.
It is important to note that our practice of the Sacrament differs from a typical "Hapunan" or "Supper" setting. While a supper typically takes place in the evening and centers around a larger meal, our Sacrament is conducted during our weekly worship service, regardless of time. The focus is primarily on the symbolic elements of bread and water, rather than indulging in a full meal.
Through the weekly Sacrament, we strive to emulate the example set by Jesus Christ and renew our commitment to follow his teachings. It serves as a unifying and sacred experience for members of our faith community, who come together in reverence and gratitude for the Savior's sacrifice.
Sa inyong paginom ba ng tubig meron bang nalalasing sa inyo sa tubig?
He is posing a question that is completely unrelated to the topic of the sacrament, and it appears to be lacking in depth or relevance. While it is true that we consume water during the sacrament, it is important to note that the purpose of drinking it is not to become intoxicated, as you seem to suggest from a biblical standpoint.
It is unlikely that support for your argument can be found if we were to further explore this matter. Therefore, it would be more productive to shift our focus and move on to a different subject that is more relevant and meaningful.
So for me, it such a senseless question.
Ayon pa sa tagapagtanggol ng kulto na ang simbolo ng ng dugo ni Panginoong Jesus ay ang kupeta at hindi ang laman ng kupeta na siyang ubas .
Certainly, here is a further addition to the response:
It's important to note that when discussing religious symbolism, particularly with regards to Christianity, interpretations can vary among individuals and different theological perspectives. While some may view the liquid inside the cup during religious rituals, such as the Eucharist, as symbolizing the blood of Christ, others might approach it more metaphorically or in a broader sense.
Moreover, when considering Christ's choice of words, it is reasonable to assume that he used language purposefully and meaningfully. In the context of the Last Supper, where Christ introduced the practice of sharing bread and wine with his disciples, his use of the term "cup" likely held significance and conveyed a particular intention.
However, it is important to acknowledge that my previous response may have not accurately captured your intended point. If there are specific aspects or details that you would like me to focus on, please let me know, and I will be happy to address them.
Basahin natin ang pahayag ni Apostol Pablo.
The following scriptures are being used, and I'll attempt to analyze their usage and understand how they were employed. I will highlight certain words and examine their context:
Below are the scriptures that he uses, so I will utilize them and assess his comprehension of their application. Let's examine the text and observe how it was articulated.
1 Mga Taga-Corinto 11:20 Kaya't sa inyong pagtitipon, hindi Banal na Hapunan ng Panginoon ang kinakain ninyo.
There seems to be a discrepancy in the terminology used to refer to the biblical event commonly known as "Banal Na Hapunan" or the "Lord's Supper." It's worth noting that the original Greek word employed in Scripture is "κυριακὸν δεῖπνον" (kyriakon deipnon), which is translated as "Lord's Supper" or "the Supper of the Lord." Therefore, it appears that the more accurate translation would be "Lord's Supper" rather than "Holy Supper" as indicated in the given version of Scripture, "Banal Na Hapunan."
Συνερχομένων οὖν ὑμῶν ἐπὶ τὸ αὐτὸ οὐκ ἔστιν κυριακὸν δεῖπνον φαγεῖν·
The term "κυριακὸν δεῖπνον" (kyriakon deipnon) is significant in the context of Christian worship, specifically referring to the Lord's Supper or Eucharist. This phrase captures the essence of a sacred meal shared by believers in commemoration of Jesus Christ's Last Supper.
It is important to note that the usage of the term "κυριακὸν δεῖπνον" may vary in different translations or interpretations of the Greek text. While the original Greek manuscripts may not explicitly mention the Holy Supper, subsequent revisions and translations have included this concept within the broader understanding of the Lord's Supper.
However, it is worth mentioning that certain faith traditions, such as the INC (Iglesia Ni Cristo), may interpret or utilize this term inaccurately or differently from its original meaning. These variations in interpretation can arise due to theological or doctrinal differences among different religious groups.
Nevertheless, for the purpose of this discussion, we can set aside the issue of the INC's usage and delve into the broader significance of the Lord's Supper within the context of Christian worship. The Lord's Supper holds great importance as a symbolic representation of Jesus' sacrifice, emphasizing the unity of believers with Christ and with one another.
Rephrasing the original statement, it becomes clear that the Greek term "κυριακὸν δεῖπνον" conveys the concept of the Lord's Supper, although the explicit mention of the Holy Supper might be absent in earlier Greek texts. The INC's interpretation of this term can be disregarded for now, as it does not align with the intended focus of this post.
1 Mga Taga-Corinto 11:21 Sapagkat ang bawat isa sa inyo'y nagmamadali sa pagkain ng kanyang baong pagkain, kaya't nagugutom ang iba at ang iba nama'y nalalasing.
1 Mga Taga-Corinto 11:22 Wala ba kayong sariling bahay upang doon kumain at uminom? O hinahamak ninyo ang iglesya ng Diyos at hinihiya ang mahihirap? Ano ang gagawin ko ngayon? Ipagmamalaki ko ba kayo dahil sa bagay na iyon? Hinding-hindi ko gagawin iyon!
1 Mga Taga-Corinto 11:23 Ito ang katuruang tinanggap ko sa Panginoon at ibinigay ko naman sa inyo: noong gabing siya'y ipagkanulo, ang Panginoong Jesus ay dumampot ng tinapay,
1 Mga Taga-Corinto 11:24 nagpasalamat at pinagpira-piraso iyon, at sinabi, “Ito ang aking katawan na inihahandog para sa inyo. Gawin ninyo ito bilang pag-aalaala sa akin.”
1 Mga Taga-Corinto 11:25 Matapos maghapunan, dumampot din siya ng kopa at sinabi, “Ang kopang ito ay ang bagong tipan ng Diyos na pinagtibay ng aking dugo. Tuwing iinumin ninyo ito, gawin ninyo bilang pag-aalaala sa akin.”
1 Mga Taga-Corinto 11:26 Sapagkat tuwing kakain kayo ng tinapay na ito at iinom sa kopang ito, ipinapahayag ninyo ang kamatayan ng Panginoon hanggang sa kanyang muling pagparito.
1 Mga Taga-Corinto 11:27 Ang sinumang kumakain ng tinapay at umiinom sa kopa ng Panginoon sa paraang di nararapat ay nagkakasala sa katawan at dugo ng Panginoon.
1 Mga Taga-Corinto 11:28 Kaya't dapat siyasatin ng tao ang kanyang sarili bago siya kumain ng tinapay at uminom sa kopa.
1 Mga Taga-Corinto 11:29 Sapagkat ang sinumang kumakain at umiinom nang hindi kinikilala ang kahalagahan ng katawan ng Panginoon ay kumakain at umiinom ng kahatulan laban sa kanyang sarili.
So far as your listed scripture found in 1 Corinthians 11:21-29 said everything about the Lord's Supper as a constant practice of the early saints, and nowhere it says grape or wine, rather they use the term "Cup", which generally used to fill any liquid substance. Is water not acceptable as a substance to fill the cup? Of course since we don't partake a literal blood of Christ, rather an emblems of his Sacrifice, moreover, nowhere you can ever find water was forbidden.
Certainly! It is important to consider the context and symbolism of the Lord's Supper when discussing the substance used to fill the cup. In the biblical accounts of the Last Supper, Jesus used wine as a representation of his blood that was shed for the forgiveness of sins.
However, it is worth noting that throughout history and in different cultural contexts, the substance used in the cup during the Lord's Supper has varied. While the use of wine is a common practice in many Christian traditions, there have been instances where water or other non-alcoholic beverages have been used as well.
The primary significance of the Lord's Supper lies in its symbolism rather than the specific substance used. The cup represents the blood of Christ and the act of partaking in it symbolizes the believers' identification with Jesus' sacrifice and their unity with one another as members of the body of Christ.
Therefore, as long as the symbolism and purpose of the Lord's Supper are upheld, there is no explicit scriptural prohibition against using water or any other suitable substance in filling the cup. The emphasis lies in the spiritual significance and reverence with which the sacrament is observed rather than the specific liquid used.
Ultimately, the choice of using wine, water, or any other beverage may depend on the traditions and beliefs of different Christian denominations or individuals. As long as the actions are done with respect and an understanding of the underlying symbolism, the substance used in the cup can be a matter of personal or communal preference.
For, behold, I say unto you, that it mattereth not what ye shall eat or what ye shall drink when ye partake of the sacrament, if it so be that ye do it with an eye single to my glory—remembering unto the Father my body which was laid down for you, and my blood which was shed for the remission of your sins. - Doctrine and Covenants 27:2
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What kind of Argument
was that?
You're trying to bend it
and yet you fail because
of your stupidity. |
For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come. - 1 Corinthians 11:26
In Paul's letter to the Corinthians, he addresses the significance of the cup as a symbol in partaking of the blood of Christ. The cup, traditionally used for holding liquid, is not specifically designated to contain a particular substance. However, historical context suggests that wine was commonly utilized during that period as part of their customary practices.
It is important to understand that the essence of Paul's message goes beyond the physical nature of the liquid itself. He emphasizes the spiritual significance behind the act of drinking from the cup, highlighting the remembrance of Christ's sacrifice and the covenant it represents.
Throughout time, there have been additional instructions and interpretations regarding the observance of this sacred practice. These addendums serve to guide believers in the proper application of the symbolic cup, ensuring that the deeper meaning behind communion is preserved and understood.
As Christians, we are encouraged to approach the cup with reverence and sincerity, recognizing the powerful symbolism it holds. Whether the liquid within is wine or a suitable alternative, it is our duty to honor the intent of the ordinance and reflect on the profound act of love and redemption it represents.
Ultimately, the specifics of the cup's contents may differ depending on cultural or personal circumstances, but the core message it conveys remains constant: it stands as a poignant reminder of Christ's sacrifice and the eternal covenant we share as believers.
Tubig ba ang kanilang ininom na nakakalasing ?
You are questioning the basis of the claim that drinking wine in the cup made the people drunk. Firstly, there is no evidence to support the idea that they became intoxicated after drinking from the cup. There is no documentation indicating such an outcome. Secondly, the text does not specifically mention the use of the fruit of the vine during Christ's time. The passage refers to the cup, not explicitly mentioning the fruit or the wine.
Lucas 22:18 Sinasabi ko sa inyo, mula ngayo'y hindi na ako iinom nitong KATAS NG UBAS hangga't hindi dumarating ang kaharian ng Diyos.”
Lucas 22:19 Dumampot din siya ng tinapay, at matapos magpasalamat sa Diyos ay kanyang pinaghati-hati iyon at ibinigay sa kanila. Sabi niya, “Ito ang aking katawan na inihahandog para sa inyo. Gawin ninyo ito bilang pag-alaala sa akin.”
Lucas 22:20 Gayundin naman, dinampot niya ang kopa pagkatapos maghapunan at sinabi, “Ang kopang ito ang bagong tipan ng Diyos na pinagtibay ng aking dugo. Ang aking dugo ay mabubuhos alang-alang sa inyo.
Okay so... What did Christ say? He wouldn't drink of the fruit of the vine. And how do you observe that? And on verse 20 he used the term Cup, not wine. Does this have something to do with your ignorance?
You're trying to look at the word game that you missed a few previous words. Nice one on your cherry-picking idea, and yet you fail.
So here's the thing. Christ instituted the sacrament to them in remembrance of him and his sacrifice for us. The cup he will drink is not a cup that was selected by your ministers but rather a better cup that the father gave to him -
... the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it? - John 18:11
The cup is simply the sacrifice he will perform. It is not sweet and in fact, the Book of Mormon clarified Christ words -
And behold, I am the light and the life of the world; and I have drunk out of that bitter cup which the Father hath given me, and have glorified the Father in taking upon me the sins of the world, in the which I have suffered the will of the Father in all things from the beginning. - 3 Nephi 11:11
Your interpretation of symbolism and the Last Supper is utterly absurd, Job Bautista. It makes no sense for Christ and the apostles to celebrate and indulge in drunkenness if it all represents his impending death. And as for you, do you even know what it's like to purchase wine? Or do you just get it from the supermarket's beverage section? Clearly, you have no clue about obtaining fruit directly from the vine.
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Fruit of the Vine or the Bottle?
Which one do you observe Job Bautista? |
Sa halip na KATAS NG UBAS ang kanilang ininom ng kulto ni Joseph Smith naghaka-haka sila na tubig nalang ang ginamit nila at ito raw ay symbolical ng dugo ni Panginoong Jesucristo sa pagtubos ng Iglesia ni Cristo. Gawa 20:28 Lamsa
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Seriously, was that the very
purpose of his death?
And when did I say
it was about the hour? |
"God purchase his own Blood" 😁. You Can not support that, you keep using that special version of yours. Anyway, as we move on. To support that idea Job. The Prophet received revelation on why the Grapes were replaced by water. But actually, it was never a big deal since before this revelation, the saints use wine in administering the sacrament. In fact, it was even in the Book of Mormon and in Doctrine and Covenants about the sacramental prayer in which wine was used. Here's the text to let you know -
O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee, in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this wine to the souls of all those who drink of it, that they may do it in remembrance of the blood of thy Son, which was shed for them; that they may witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they do always remember him, that they may have his Spirit to be with them. Amen. - Moroni 5:2, D&C 20:
There are reasons why some instructions are given after, and for that, let's try to put some of it here -
For, behold, I say unto you, that it mattereth not what ye shall eat or what ye shall drink when ye partake of the sacrament, if it so be that ye do it with an eye single to my glory—remembering unto the Father my body which was laid down for you, and my blood which was shed for the remission of your sins.
3 Wherefore, a commandment I give unto you, that you shall not purchase wine neither strong drink of your enemies;
4 Wherefore, you shall partake of none except it is made new among you; yea, in this my Father’s kingdom which shall be built up on the earth.
5 Behold, this is wisdom in me; wherefore, marvel not, for the hour cometh that I will drink of the fruit of the vine with you on the earth, and with Moroni, whom I have sent unto you to reveal the Book of Mormon, containing the fulness of my everlasting gospel, to whom I have committed the keys of the record of the stick of Ephraim;
- Doctrine and Covenants 27:2-5
It was instructed to use wine out of their own make, meaning from the plants grown in their own farm or vineyard. Which basically means fruit directly of the vine, which I believe that you do not observe. So, who was duped now?
And, behold, this should be wine, yea, pure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make - D&C 89:6
Question to you Job Bautista. Do you make your own grape juice as the fruit of the vine or just simply purchase it in a supermarket? What did the scripture say? You can justify it whatever you want, but you can't support it biblically.
Kaya sila hindi naman talaga Iglesia ni Cristo, kaya sila naghaka haka na lamang sa kanilang Banal na hapunan. Narito ang kanilang ginawa.
And there goes that Banal na Hapunan (Holy Supper) thing. Ok, so when do you people celebrate that? Did you receive revelation to perform it on the exact date when Christ held it? Does any INC has that record on when did Christ perform it or does the scripture says often?
For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come. - 1 Corinthians 11:26
Ok, so when do you perform that Holy Supper of INC? March? Where's your revelation about it? Or was it another copycat movement of INC? So where did you steal that ideology?
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Oh really?
Thanks for your Opinion. |
On one occasion, Ellen G. White made some comments about the Lord's Supper and the Passover that was debated in its observance. Here are part of it -
"As we had before us the emblems of our dying Lord, and were about to commemorate His sufferings, this brother arose and said that he had no faith in what we were about to do; that the Lord's supper was a continuation of the Passover, and should be partaken of but once a year.
...
The leaders of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, including Ellen G. White, since that time have consistently maintained that the observance of the Lord's Supper is not a continuation of the Passover of ancient times, and that partaking of the communion service is not to be restricted to Passover time and thus held but once a year.
(Click here to learn more... )
If Passover was to be observed in between March and early April, does this mean this INC didn't know about the importance of Lord's Supper rather a part of the Jewish Feast or Tradition? This leads us that this kind of church was not guided by revelations at all.
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He made a personal attack to
Crisandra Sambrano who just want
to speak up about her views. |
And by this time, Job Bautista attacks one of the members and made it too personal. Pasted it in his wall and made such an attempt to shame someone. Is this what the INC claimed the church of God by stumping on someone's faith? Let's examine his attacked and Ad Feminam.Pagbubunyag sa maling aral sa kulto ni Joseph Smith .
Crisandra Sambrano Villanueva
Pahayag niya ss :
At tama na nagpakita sa akin ang Panginoon sa vision ko, at tubig ang ginamit nyang symbol para sa message na sinabi nya sa akin, yan ay personal na message nya sa akin dahil ang vision ko ay para lang sa akin.
Ito ang pahayag ni Crisandra Sambrano Villanueva, isang magiting na tagapagtanggol sa aral ni Joseph Smith . Isa yata itong propetae ?
This was originally a chat message from Crisanda to Job Bautista as her personal Opinion of Job Bautista's ideology. Be he took it to a different level. He copied the text and post it on his wall humiliating the person. Okay, so was this all about Christianity Job Bautista? Is this part of your doctrinal gimmick? If you are a follower of Christ, this is not supposed to be an attitude that you would show. This proves how arrogant you people are and an idiot.
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A picture grab
by Job Bautista for criticism.
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Note to the Readers: Since Job Baustista is too arrogant in keeping a healthy discussion, but rather pointing out some of his stupid word gameplay.
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Is this all you got?
Do you still have
anything to stand on?
Or just want it to shift
into a personal thing?
So, I guess we're all clear
that you can't keep it up. |
He thinks the typos are intentional so I'm making some word corrections and admitting my typo error, since I did not make some proofread while doing this blog, so I give my credit to Job Baustista for his Arrogant wordplay.
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Oh, really? So, What's the big deal
if I misspelled it. What's your point? |
Thanks, Job Bautista, below are some of our conversations and his senseless response. -
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Say what?
By just simply understanding
the text you tend to ignore
the fact that you INCult
misunderstood the
Concept of Lord's Supper? |
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Look at that?
So, How many INC Minions
are still childish nowadays?
Yeah, this guy is always
in a wordplay |
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And it seems like your
running out of Criticism.
Seems like you can't
keep up the issue.
Good try on your running. |
