Dahil nasupalpal si Jose Rodelio Retome Rata, ito ngayon ay humuhugot sa Cherry-Pick Teachings of INC. Akala siguro nito, di ko kayang suportahan ang statement ko regarding Christ's divinity.
This was from the previous exchange about the divinity of Christ, where Jose Rodelio Retome Rata didn't understand the statement. Check out the full conversation here https://bustillo-family.blogspot.com/2025/12/exchanges-details.html
I want to challenge you, Jose Rodelio Retome Rata, on your understanding of the identity of Jesus Christ, regarding your position that Jesus is ONLY HUMAN and NOT DIVINE.
Unang-una, linawin natin muna, Jose, para alam mo ang paniniwala ng LDS, kaya maghucos-pucos ka lang sa style mong pambata, isang bagay: Hindi itinatanggi ng LDS ang tunay na pagkatao ni Jesus Christ. Naniniwala ang LDS na Siya (si Jesus Christ) ay ipinanganak ni Maria, nakaranas ng gutom, uhaw, pagod, kalungkutan, sakit, temptation, at maging kamatayan. But the real question is this: Does His humanity automatically cancel His divinity? Dahil ba naging tao si Cristo, ibig sabihin hindi na Siya Diyos? Is that really what the Bible teaches Jose Rodelio Retome Rata? Mamaya sagutin ko na 'yan at alam kung wala kang sagot.
WHAT IS THE HYPOSTATIC UNION IN LDS UNDERSTANDING?
In Tagalog at ginamitan ko pa ito ng translator para maintindihan mo, Jose Rodelio Retome Rata. Ang Hypostatic Union ay isang theological term na ginagamit sa historical Christianity upang ilarawan ang divine identity at genuine humanity ni Jesus Christ. Baka maghanap ka na naman kung saan mababasa 'yan sa Bibliya. Ulitin ko ha, Jose at cherry-pick master ka pa naman, upang ilarawan ang divine identity at genuine humanity. The term hypostatic comes from the Greek word hypostatikós (ὑποστατικός), which means "pertaining to substance, underlying, or supporting," from hypo (under) and stasis (standing or state of existence).
Sa LDS perspective, maaari natin itong gamitin bilang comparative theological description, ngunit kailangan nating linawin na hindi opisyal na adopted doctrine ng Church ang classical Chalcedonian definition ng Hypostatic Union. Okay, so ulitin natin ha, at baka mangompara ka na naman, Jose. Alam ko kasi mentality mo, medyo kulang pa sa maturity. The LDS did not adopt the Chalcedonian description; in LDS, we simply call it Divine Sonship or Divinity of Christ. But we will just use Hypostatic Union in general to help you understand my view, Jose.
LDS believe na si Jesus Christ ay -
- Divine Son of God - Siya ang Only Begotten Son of the Father in the flesh.
- Premortal Jehovah - Siya ay umiral bago pa likhain ang mundo at bago pa ipanganak si Abraham.
- Creator - Lahat ng bagay ay nilikha sa pamamagitan Niya under the direction of the Father.
- Mortal Man - Tunay Niyang naranasan ang mortality at lahat ng kaugnay nitong paghihirap, maliban sa kasalanan.
- Resurrected Saviour - Siya ang nagtagumpay laban sa kamatayan at muling nabuhay.
Magkaiba ang kanilang theological explanation tungkol sa nature ng Godhead. Sa LDS belief, magkaiba at magkakahiwalay na divine beings ang Father, Son, at Holy Ghost, united in purpose, will, glory, and mission. Hindi namin itinuturo ang Nicene concept na iisa ang divine substance ng tatlong Persons.
Ngayon, Jose Rodelio Retome Rata, if we discuss Christ's divine and human identity, hindi ito pareho na agad ang LDS doctrine at Chalcedonian theology. Kung yan ang mentality mo, Jose, magmumukha kang ingot niyan, Jose Rodelio Retome Rata.
OK, SO WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ABOUT THE DIVINITY OF JESUS CHRIST?
Ngayon, Jose Rodelio Retome Rata, let's try to examine these biblical passages. Hindi ito basta mga verses na puwedeng i-dismiss dahil hindi mo gusto, or sa isang INC interpretation, hindi pasok sa ideology ng ministro nyo -
Puntahan natin itong mga gasgas na verses na pinagpipilian nyo pero hindi nyo gusto ang iba -
JOHN 1 (New International Version)In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.2 He was with God in the beginning.3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind....10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God —13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Sinasabi rito na ang Word (Logos) ay kasama ng Diyos, ang Word ay Diyos, at ang Word ay nagkatawang-tao. And not just that, there are other things that Christ did that give us a clear understanding of why he came down for us. Check mo yung naka-underline, Jose, and try to think about this -
- Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made - So tell me, why can't everything be made without Christ? Sino ba siya na para bang di kaya ng Ama lumikha nang wala siya? Why was that Jose Rodelio Retome Rata? Sige nga sagutin mo.
- In him was life - Bakit sya ba lumikha ng buhay, Jose Rodelio Retome Rata? Tao lang siya sa inyo, di ba, Jose, so bakit nasa kanya ang buhay?
- Those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God - Ano ba kapangyarihan nya na isang Tao lang na kaya gawin anak ng Dios ang mga maniniwala sa kanya?
- The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us - So literal ba na Salita ito na naging tao na bigla na lang pumasok sa sinapupunan ni Maria dahil gusto ng Diyos na maging tao ang sinasabi o nasa isip niya?
Gasgas na gasgas 'yan sa mga talakayan nyo sa ibang group na puro cherry-pick. Sige nga, kung may alam ka, sagutin mo ng matinong sagot 'yang simpleng tanong, Jose Rodelio Retome Rata?
JOHN 8:58 Sinabi ni Jesus: "Before Abraham was, I am." So ano naman palusot mo dya? Gusto nga siyang batuhin ng mga Judio dahil sa statement niya using the title "I AM". Sinabi ba ni Kristo na "Ay hindi, ang ibig kong sabihin, noong wala pa si Abraham, nandiyan na ang Diyos?" Ganern? Ba't hindi siya nagbigay ng correction or clarification sa sinasabi niya? Bakit niya hinahayaan na sa tingin ng mga tao ay lumabag siya sa batas o kalapastanganan o blasphemy na puwedeng maging ikamatay niya? So sagot mo na naman diyan.
Bakit ginamit ni Cristo ang ganitong declaration? Paano mo ipapaliwanag ang existence Niya bago pa isinilang si Abraham?
JOHN 20:28 (NIV) Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
Thomas Declaration noong makita ang resurrected Christ, sinabi niya: "My Lord and my God." So, ano, na-shock na naman tayo nito. Basahin mo nga nang buo, mulat ang isip mo, kung meron kang makitang Thomas was shocked, Jose Rodelio Retome Rata. Pag meron kang makita, mag-INC na ako.
Bakit tinawag ni Thomas si Jesus na kanyang Panginoon at Diyos? At bakit hindi Niya itinama si Thomas kung mali ang pagkakaintindi nito? Sinabi ba ni Kristo, "Naku naman, Thomas, nakita mo na ako, lutang ka pa rin!" Ganern? Oh, ikaw, Jose, baka may palusot ka diyan?
Colossians 2:9 (NIV) For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily formColossians 2:9 (KJV)For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Oh, dito na tayo sa pilit mong e-cherry-pick na kunyari wala scriptural references. So ano ngayon palusot mo dyan? Sabi pa nga ni Paul sa kanyang epistle na "Fullness of the Godhead bodily" or "bodily Form" naman sa ibang translation. Ano naman sa tingin mo ang magandang ipalusot diyan, Jose Rodelio Retome Rata? Sabihin nyo na naman nagkamali lang si Pablo at di naman sinabi ni Kristo yan. Edi, WOW!
Paano mo ito ipapaliwanag kung ang paniniwala mo ay ordinaryong human being lamang si Jesus Kristo, Jose Rodelio Retome Rata?
Ang point ng statement ko sa last part ay ang atonement, na kailangan madaig ito ng isang divine in nature; sino ba ang meron noon? Kaya si Kristo ay pinanganak sa tao at sa Espiritu, para matupad ang pagbabayad-sala. Wala kasi kayong ganyang study sa INC, kaya turo nyo puro na lang Manalo at hocus-pocus. Oh, ito ang isang website na di ko man lang kilala, pero sumasang-ayon sa statement ko; baka magulat ka? Basa na lang, Jose - https://corechristianity.com/resources/articles/why-jesus-had-to-be-both-god-and-man. Baka sabihin mo ginawa ko 'yan, Jose; iwan ko na lang kung ganyan kakitid ang utak mo. Also, baka sabihin mo namang pabor ako diyan sa website na 'yan, Jose. It's not an LDS website, and for sure there are theologies and terminologies na hindi magkapareho ang exegesis or hermeneutics. Don't worry, Jose, di ko naman sinasang-ayunan 'yan. Yun nga lang nasupalpal ka.
HEBREWS 1:8 (NIV) But about the Son he says,Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
Tungkol sa Anak, sinasabi ng talata: "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever." Notice that the passage addresses the Son as God. Ano naman interpretations nyo diyan, Jose Rodelio Retome Rata? Sabihin nyo na naman, maling salin yan. Dapat yung salin na tinatanggap ng INC lang ang dapat sang-ayunan. Edi WOW na naman!
Marami sa inyo mga INC, kahit magpatulong ka pa, Jose, ang pilit na hanapan ng ibang translations itong Hebrews 1:8 para lang iwasan ang divinity ni Kristo. May ganern ba, Jose Rodelio Retome Rata? So, anong translation gamit mo diyan, Jose? Baka papasok dyan Goodspeed Translation, the Moffatt Translation, and the New World Translation (NWT). Ay, di n'yo pala gamitin ang New World Translation kasi sa Jehovah's Witnesses pala ito. So umiikot lang kayo sa Goodspeed at Moffatt. Pagbigyan kita kung tama ang translation mo na 'yan. Gamitan natin ng Greek Septuagint, at baka magulat ka sa Dead Sea Scrolls of Psalm 45:6, preserving the text. Iwan ko lang.
Philippians 2:5-115 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Ipinapakita diyan, Jose, na mismo si Kristo ay nasa form of God, pero nagpakababa Siya at nag-anyong alipin o servant, naging tao, at nagpakumbaba hanggang kamatayan sa krus. Ano naman ba 'yan sa iyo, Jose Rodelio Retome Rata? Sabihin mo na naman, "Wala namang sinabi diyan na Diyos si Kristo, Form of God yan eh, dapat God lang." Toink! So dahil Form of God, so hindi God. Eh bakit nagpakababa pa eh dati naman pa lang nasa baba, Jose?
So, kung walang divine identity si Cristo, bakit ganoon ang paglalarawan ni Pablo sa Kanya?
TITUS 2:13 - while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,
Now what about this verse, Jose Rodelio Retome Rata? Hindi ba malinaw na may divine designation ang passage na ito? Tinatawag dito si Jesus Christ na ating Great God and Savior. Sabihin nyo naman ito ay hindi si Kristo dahil it refers to "The Glory of our great God". Oh, come on, Jose Rodelio Retome Rata. So now, tell us, Jose: does "The Glory", as it refers to, not mean the Title and Attribute of Christ to be God as the Son? Why would God do that, na para bang ipadala niya ang isang robot na nagkukunwari lang na ito ay Diyos kasi dala-dala niya ang glory of God na haharap sa tao, pero hindi 'yan Diyos, robot NGANI! Ganun ba, Jose?
May isa pa kayong palusot diyan, at unahan na kita at parang wala kang alam, baka sakali magkalaman ang brain mo, Jose Rodelio Retome Rata. Isa pa dyan ay ang Early Codex, na ang naunang codex did not refer to "God and Savior," so then you will not refer sa codex that has a later version. Edi, WOW ulit na naman! Sige nga, patunayan nyo na yung early codex ay first-hand account of Paul's Epistle to Titus. Kaya mo ba patunayan, o kahit sino sa inyong mga taga-INC kaya nyo bang suportahan yan?
Tingnan mo gaano ka layo ang sagot mo, Jose, tapos ang hambog mong makipagdebate? Naku Po, Jose Rodelio Retome Rata!
HIS HUMANITY DOES NOT CANCEL HIS DIVINITY
Dahil nga pinanganak siya sa tao, so natural daw tao na rin si Kristo, di ba, Jose? Dahil daw ito yung mga dahilan ayon pa sa turo ni Jose Rodelio Retome Rata -
- Nagutom si Jesus (Matthew 4:2), pero pinakain Niya ang libu-libong tao sa pamamagitan ng himala (Matthew 14:19-21), at nakayanang mag-fasting ng 40 days nang walang pagkain at tubig (Matthew 4:1-11).
- Nauhaw Siya (John 19:28), pero nag-alok Siya ng living water (John 4:10-14).
- Umiyak Siya (John 11:35), pero binuhay Niya si Lazarus mula sa kamatayan (John 11:43-44).
- Namatay Siya sa krus (Luke 23:46), pero sinabi Niyang may kapangyarihan Siyang kunin muli ang Kanyang buhay (John 10:17-18).
- Ipinanganak Siya ni Maria (Luke 1:31), pero existing na Siya bago pa si Abraham (John 8:58).
Tingin mo sapat na ang simpleng pagsagot na tao si Jesus dahil ipinanganak Siya ni Maria? Kaya nga tinanong kita kung sino ang biological father niya para mabuo ang kanyang human identity. Nasagot mo ba? So paano mo nasabi na siya ay tao lang? Nobody is disputing His humanity. Ang pinag-uusapan natin ay ang Kanyang divine identity.
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